It's not the guns, it's that those who carry them are willing to kill.

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Thread: It's not the guns, it's that those who carry them are willing to kill.

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    It's not the guns, it's that those who carry them are willing to kill.

    What 's behind all this fear and hatred of guns? It's not the guns, it's that those who carry them are willing to kill.

    I haven't yet fully developed this idea as it just came to me this morning, so I thought I'd throw it out there for general consideration and to see what others may think of the idea.

    I think this may be behind the hoplophobia that runs through society. Those who haven't thought it through are shocked that we, who otherwise might seem so normal, are so different from who they suppose themselves to be.

    Humans tend to view the world through the lens of their own experience and to lessen the importance or validity of that which they have not personally experienced. That is the difference between theory and life. That is why travel is broadening. That would also tend to explain why a liberal is only a conservative who has not yet been mugged.

    Your thoughts?

    P.S. I'll be away from the computer for a while, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this might develop. Happy Mothers' Day!

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    It's actually those pesky bullets that kill people.

    Seriously...some of the fear of guns comes from accidents that occur for whatever reason. In homes, children, hunting..etc.

    Let's not kid each other...they can be very dangerous and are to be taken seriously and they come with great responsibility. The design of a gun is to blast a projectile at a high speed with the intent to do damage to something.
    This makes some people (both Libs and Conservatives) very nervous and fearful of these devices. Understandably so, they are not for everyone.
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    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Member Array Stilgar's Avatar
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    The sheeple only believe what see and hear on tv.
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    I have pondered this as I'm sure everyone here has and I think you have a somewhat valid point; it is
    that the hand-gun enthusiast has made a decision that is horrific for others to think about.

    I had a boss who was an avid rifleman and hunter. He was scared silly of handguns and people
    who carried.

    I just figured he was psychologically projecting his inner self onto the rest of us and happy he didn't get himself
    one.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    That would also tend to explain why a liberal is only a conservative who has not yet been mugged.
    That is such an oversimplified and obtuse statement. We're not all bible beating conservatives here on the forum.
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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I think they are the "Koolaid" drinking people who believe anything the Liberal/Progressive anti gunners fed them. The others are those who can't trust themselves with being responsible for their own self defense....so why would they trust you. After all, you can't be as smart and controlled as they are. Again Liberal/Progressives.
    msgt/ret, ksholder and RichB70 like this.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    I think they are the "Koolaid" drinking people who believe anything the Liberal/Progressive anti gunners fed them. The others are those who can't trust themselves with being responsible for their own self defense....so why would they trust you. After all, you can't be as smart and controlled as they are. Again Liberal/Progressives.
    That's a huge bunch of people out there from both sides of the political spectrum. Its not that they can't trust themselves with
    being responsible for their own self-defense, its that they can't trust themselves, so they can't trust others.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Maybe one should look at it from both perspectives. There are valid points on both sides, despite what some of you guys may think. I realize that many view carrying a firearm as an inalienable (or is it unalienable...whatever was decided in that other thread) right, but it is a complicated subject.

    Handguns were designed for close quarters combat versus other humans. If one of the resident firearm historians disagrees with that, then I will certainly listen to an opposing argument, as I am just a guy who listened to a lot of Lynyrd Skynyrd in my youth.

    A firearm is obviously a tool, but handguns make killing easier and more efficient. The U.S. was founded by people who respect gun rights, and there are hundreds of millions of guns in the country, so firearms are here to stay. Many people argue about these mass shootings saying things like, "if there would have been a man ccw'ing, then it could have been avoided." Other people (those darned liberals) wonder why the shooting happened in the first place, i.e. why were these mentally ill people allowed to access firearms? I can't say their argument is illogical. My guess is that if guns were to magically disappear, crime would go down. This is obviously an impossibility, and gun control would undoubtedly make law abiding citizens more vulnerable to violent crime, but I don't think anti-gunners are dumb people because they want to make the world a safer place, just ill-advised.

    I'm a "libertarian" in the sense that I believe people should be able to anything as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's life/liberty/livelihood. As such, I'm staunchly pro 2A. The anti-gun folks are idealists, and the pro 2A crowd are realists. Both groups essentially want the same thing, however.
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    Member Array mook012's Avatar
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    I carry for on reason - personal defense of myself and family. The country is becoming a much more dangerous place for various reasons - drugs, gangs, economy, hatred - take your pick. Police Departments cannot protect you in a timely manor ,and in fact have no duty to do so. So, it is up to you to provide for your own defense and take responsibility for yourself. Many people don't want to do that and cede the responibility to an imaginary police officer standing close by.

    I absolutely do not want to take a life - but I will pull the trigger if there is no other option against a predator.

    I agree with Hopyard - many cannot trust themselves to take responsibility for their own protection. If you want government to do everything for you - you are back to being a serf and owe all your labor and efforts to the government.
    " Life is tough and it gets tougher if your stupid." John Wayne.

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    Member Array craze's Avatar
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    It seems to me that there is less fear of firearms from the general public than say 10 or so years ago. Guns are more main stream now than they have ever been. It's very seldom I run across people who are across the board anti gun. I've had several folks supprise me that I assumed to be anti gun that turned out not to be.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
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    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    Some have moral and religious objections to the taking of human life.The bad guys don't.But I can't believe that even the most ardent gun hater would not kill if, he/she had to to protect his/her children from a low life with no respect for human life.They can pretend all they want to,their world is different,its civilized.Only those gun totin idiots believe its their responsibility to protect their family.Why, thats a job for the police.If there is trouble,civilized people call the police,and if they dont arrive in time and their whole family is killed,oh well,I did the right thing.I'm not a gun totin redneck.Sheep.Look like a sheep,get eaten by the wolves.Good thing for alot of them there are sheepdogs.

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    Member Array garwha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    What 's behind all this fear and hatred of guns? It's not the guns, it's that those who carry them are willing to kill.

    I haven't yet fully developed this idea as it just came to me this morning, so I thought I'd throw it out there for general consideration and to see what others may think of the idea.

    I think this may be behind the hoplophobia that runs through society. Those who haven't thought it through are shocked that we, who otherwise might seem so normal, are so different from who they suppose themselves to be.

    Humans tend to view the world through the lens of their own experience and to lessen the importance or validity of that which they have not personally experienced. That is the difference between theory and life. That is why travel is broadening. That would also tend to explain why a liberal is only a conservative who has not yet been mugged.

    Your thoughts?

    P.S. I'll be away from the computer for a while, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this might develop. Happy Mothers' Day!
    Apathy is the biggest problem we are all faced with. During my tour in Viet Nam I spent a large chunk of my time in the Fish Hook area of Nam computing data for artillery pieces, and related task. I have always been a shooter, high man on the range in training, first rifle at 10, 12 gauge at 11, first pistol at 16 etc, etc, and have shoot competively as well. In Nam I practiced shooting at least three times a week, I had four weapon in Nam, and shot to stay sharp, but who else did that, hardley anyone. I had a few friends that would come out and shoot with me, and a few would show up to watch me shoot, not much to do on a fire base, but the truth is most were just too apathetic to worry about thier own personal safety. When I took my Texas CHL class my instructor said that most people who come back for retrainning in 4 years will not have fired thier weapon since this class.

    Now those that are active on this forum are likely more active at the range as well, and won't all fall in that group. I've needed a weapon three times in my life, and I'm still here, and I will be ready if I ever need one again, and as I set here typing this I am with four weapons again that are clean, loaded, and ready to work if needed. I know some would call that paranoia, but the truth is if you live alone there's not much reason to not have them ready. If I had kids at home it would different, I would have most locked up, and I would carry all the time inside the house. I don't think most sane people really want to kill anyone, but if the need is urgent trainning can save your tail. The curious thing is I have favorite weapons I like to shoot, and my carry gun is my least favorite to shoot, but it is the one that I practice with the most. Today I shoot at least twice a month. I'll try not to be apathetic about my personal safety.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."
    --Anais Nin (1903-1977) American writer
    Caertaker and Hoganbeg like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    That is such an oversimplified and obtuse statement. We're not all bible beating conservatives here on the forum.
    I understand about the bible beating. I don't see that liberal or conservative has much to do with religion and I should probably have avoided terms since they are not germane to the main notion I am putting forth, so I will retract that portion of my statement as it was poorly said. I was trying to convey the idea that there are those who see themselves as anti-gun (or even just anti self-defense) who suddenly see things differently when confronted with the evil in the world. The world did not change at all but they suddenly saw a reality they hadn't truly believed until that time. I know these converts exist because I ran into them throughout my training in martial arts.

    So, what I seem to be seeing here in these responses is that there is more than one reason for the fear and hate. I should have known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    ...The anti-gun folks are idealists, and the pro 2A crowd are realists. Both groups essentially want the same thing, however.
    I quite disagree with your conclusion. One group wants to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit. The other wants to be left alone to run everybody's lives as they see fit. Huge difference.
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    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

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