The G21 gen 4 – America’s 45

The G21 gen 4 – America’s 45

This is a discussion on The G21 gen 4 – America’s 45 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well that’s a bit of a stretch. And look what I’ve done – you’re all red in the face and upset. Ok, let me make ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 45
Like Tree66Likes

Thread: The G21 gen 4 – America’s 45

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,865

    The G21 gen 4 – America’s 45

    Well that’s a bit of a stretch. And look what I’ve done – you’re all red in the face and upset. Ok, let me make it up to you with a nice gun review and range report – feel any better yet? Take some deep breaths – and think, he got me again with a catchy title.

    Just a quick word about the go kart: I spent the last week or so playing with controller designs and came up with a snazzy one I like. I ran a simulation on it and it looks like everything is fine. I layed out the PCB yesterday and it looks good. I went 'old school' all the way - nothing more complicated than a transistor - there's about 20 of them. Anyway, I said that for two reasons, an 'on-the-fly' update and to say if the following turns into some kind of drivel, it's because I've fried my mind on the controller design. I should say designs, because I went through a bunch of them. Anyway.....

    OK, this is about the G21 gen 4 including some info about the enigma of the ‘dot’ connector – what’s it mean, why did Glock go to it, what does it do? Patience, you’re getting all worked up again. Let’s start from the beginning….

    The G21 gen 4 is a .45 ACP. It’s a pretty big gun, yet it isn’t. Here it is in my hand; notice my little finger is right at the bottom edge of the grip and I do apologize for the big pics. Honestly, I just got lazy, or tired, and didn't want to resize every pic:



    Then here it is beside a G17 Gen 4.



    You know what the extra length is? It’s essentially the difference in the length of a 9mm round and a .45 ACP round. Notice the barrel hood is where the extra length is. You have to look carefully or you’ll miss it. Notice especially the muzzle ends of the barrels – they’re even. If you move rearward to the FRONT of the ejection port, they’re even. If you then move to the REAR of the ejection port, you’ll see where the extra length is – the length of the barrel hood and/or chamber.



    The G21 is a bit wider. The slide of a G17 Gen 4 is 1.003”. The slide of a G21 Gen 4 is 1.125” – about an 1/8” wider. The grip width of a G17 is about 1.183”. The G21 grip width is 1.269” – a surprising 0.086” difference. I say surprising because that’s just about 0.025” over a 1/16”!

    The trigger reach (gen 4) is 2.75” on the G17 and 2.86” on the G21 – a difference of 0.11” – that’s kind of significant.

    Well I guess you guys think that I think a gun consists two main parts - a trigger and the rest of the gun. Well, you’re pretty much right! Which brings us to the enigma of the “dot” connector. Why did Glock go to a ‘dot’ connector on gen 4s?

    Theories and rumors abound, but I have yet to hear from a Glock armorer or any dependable authority that knows why Glock went to the dot connector. One theory was that in reducing the grip, the angle of the trigger housing had to be changed slightly. That would change the angle of the connector ramp relationship to the trigger bar and make the trigger heavier. So Glock compensated with the ‘dot’ connector. I checked out all that on a gen 4 and gen 3 and could see no difference in the angle of the trigger housing. If it’s there it’s too subtle for me to see.

    Another theory is that for some reason, Glock changed the trigger bar profile where it contacts the connector and this made the trigger heavier, and again, purportedly Glock went to the dot connector to compensate. Well, again, I checked my gen 3 trigger bars (I had a bunch of trigger bars lying around that I experiment with) against my gen 4 trigger bars and can see no difference in the profile.

    On top of my observations, I talked to both Oliver and Arthur of Ghost Inc and neither knew why Glock went to the dot connector. Although, they did say that they had observed that some gen 4 trigger bars did have a different profile. It seemed to be just the ones with the serrated trigger – it’s not really serrated, but it’s not the smooth trigger. Moreover, they have seen that both their 5# and 3.5# give the same trigger pull weights in a gen 4 that they do in a gen 3.

    It makes no sense to me that Glock would change the trigger bar profile and then have to make a new connector to make up the difference. Why not just go back to the original profile and be done with it. Soooo….here’s my new theory…

    Glock went to the dot connector to LIGHTEN the trigger! This really makes more sense than anything. See, I’ve been telling you all along that Glock triggers are too heavy! Now, look at you, all upset again.

    Here’s a picture of the two connectors with one on top of the other:



    What you want to look carefully at is the ramps on the connectors. The ramps are at the top of the connector, close to the center of the pic. Notice the slight change in angles. The angle of the ramp on the dot connector is in a direction that will lighten the trigger pull weight and it does – I know it does because I measured the stock 5.5# connector and dot connector in the same gun, the G21, and the dot measures lighter.

    I did a number of trigger pulls and used the average. Glocks are the hardest guns on earth to measure trigger pull weight. Ghost Inc says the same thing. Here’s 45 seconds showing how I do it:


    And here’s the results (that I got):

    Std. 5.5# Glock connector: avg = 6 lbs-6.5 oz
    Dot Glock connector………: avg = 5 lbs 13.5 oz
    Ghost Rocket connector...: avg = 5 lbs 11 oz

    Isn’t it interesting that Glock has lowered the trigger weight pull!!!!

    Since most every other detail is the same as every other Glock, let’s go to shooting.

    I’ve only got to shoot 100 rounds through it so far and I shot it with the stock dot connector. The trigger is nice. I’m sure at some point I’ll install a Ghost Rocket in it, there you go getting all red in the face again! I won’t gain much in trigger pull weight reduction, but will gain a lot in the shorter reset.

    OK, here’s the shooting. I’ve modified my standard drill from 5 shots each at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 yds to 4 shots at each range. That uses 20 rounds. That leaves me with 30 rounds which I then shoot three 5 shot groups of rapid fire at 5 yds at two 3” dots. That totals 50 rounds, or a box of ammo and I’m only dropping one round per range in the slow fire. I think it’s a win-win. So here’s the two slow fire targets, not my best, but it is what it is. This is the 3, 5, 7, 10, & 15 yd shots. The pics are after all ranges have been shot. I shot the drills twice, hence 100 rounds.



    And the second,


    Then the rapid fire, although it wasn’t as rapid as I would have liked. Well, these first two were and as you can see, I didn’t stay on the 3” orange dot all that well – 15 shots per dot.



    And the second,



    Well it looks like I need to slow down a bit and quit worrying about pushing the envelop and hit the target:



    And the second,



    Well, would most carry the G21 as a carry gun? Probably not. Would I? Absolutely! Not only would I, but do I, errr, I do.

    It is a big gun, even the smaller gen 4 grip is gonna be a stretch for smaller hands.
    bmcgilvray, OD*, Cuda66 and 7 others like this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,466
    That's Austria's .45.

    This is America's .45.


    Only kidding. Great post of first impressions and fantastic shooting too!
    grouse, OD*, smolck and 9 others like this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,865
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    That's Austria's .45.

    This is America's .45.
    I completely agree friend!!!

    I only used the title as a lure - totally non-serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Only kidding. !
    We don't have to kid about the Colt - it is America's 45. Interestingly enough, in the 2012 annual Glock Autopistols magazine Massad Ayoob had an article entitled "Glock: America's .45 Auto". Well, as much as I disagreed with that, I had to read it just to see what he had to say. Then I thought hmmm.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    ...Great post of first impressions and fantastic shooting too...
    I don't know that it's all that great, but I surely do appreciate that. Your kindness to an old man will be rewarded one of these days.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fort Bliss, Texas/Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    4,485
    Very nice post and good shooting
    Operation Enduring Freedom Veteran

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,466
    Actually, the big Glock .45 has the most appeal to me of the lot. If I was ever going to stick a toe into the Glock world I'd get one of those. A honkin' big ol' gun that would ride in a belt holster and hold a lot of .45 ACP goodness.

    I can relate to the sentiment at the bottom of your posts! Senior discounts are a new thing with me this year. The savings doesn't make up for the status. I emptied a heaping LWB pickup load of mulch with a grain scoop and spread it around per my wife's instructions on Thursday evening. Still feeling the effects. No bad back or anything but just not feeling as frisky after such a task as I once felt.

    Maybe I'll just use an entrenching tool to scoop out the mulch next time. May be more my speed.

    I got a chance to see that article a while back or I wouldn't have been so quick with a come-back for your post. Great article from Mas!
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  6. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,865
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Actually, the big Glock .45 has the most appeal to me of the lot. If I was ever going to stick a toe into the Glock world I'd get one of those. A honkin' big ol' gun that would ride in a belt holster and hold a lot of .45 ACP goodness.
    It's you man! I can see it! LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    ...Senior discounts are a new thing with me this year. The savings doesn't make up for the status.
    Amen to that!!! Welcome to the club. I wonder if we stop getting the discount if we'll start getting younger?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    ...I emptied a heaping LWB pickup load of mulch with a grain scoop and spread it around per my wife's instructions on Thursday evening. Still feeling the effects. No bad back or anything but just not feeling as frisky after such a task as I once felt.
    It's been my experience that the brain doesn't understand aging kinda makes it hard on the ol body parts!

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    ...I got a chance to see that article a while back or I wouldn't have been so quick with a come-back for your post. Great article from Mas!
    I was feeling lucky that I was able to get my OP posted before you replied - you were quick!

    Yeah, ol Mas does a good job! From what I understand, he's a really good shooter too.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  7. #7
    Member Array Blades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    319
    Nice review.

    It is about time we upgraded America's .45, the Glock 21 is a fine replacement for the 1911. Now it is time for me to hide...

    The 1911 did a good job, still does a good job, but we don't drive Model T's for a reason. Now before you drive to North Carolina to drag me out of my house and beat me, I have owned a 1911 in the past.

    Let's Compare:
    Glock 21- 13 rounds of 230gr .45acp JHP / 38.28 ounces loaded. Price $525

    M1911 - 7 rounds of 230gr .45acp FMJ / 39.04 ounces UNloaded. Price $500 - $3000?? Figure $1000 for basic quality.

    So I can buy one Glock 21 and $475 worth of ammo(or two G21's); or one M1911 and nothing else.


    BUT what other handgun has such a legacy? Has so many different companies that are making one?
    kb2wji and Gearhead like this.
    --Jason--

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355
    Nice post and great shooting, as usual. Thanks. BTW I can get all my fingers on my Ultra, too.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  9. #9
    Member Array FLMOPE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central IL
    Posts
    243

    Glock 21

    The Glock 21 is my carry weapon at work.

    At our latest qualification it shined ever so bright among the fancy nickel plated sissy pistols.
    biggie1981 likes this.
    "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."

    "My dog is smarter than your honor student."

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,466
    I didn't realize just how great a shooter Mas was until reading "Mas Ayoob's Greatest Handguns of the World" which is now a volume one because he's got a second volume that examines more "greatest handguns" at the printer now about to be distributed. The two works must have been a labor of love for him. He pulls no punches about the strengths and weaknesses of his selections and doens't come off sounding like advertising copy as most magazine articles are prone to do these days (well, they did back when too). I never realized just how much Mas has been involved in competition and from an early age too. There's a really good reason why he can shoot. I already have the first one and have placed an advance order for the second.
    Link: Amazon.com: Massad Ayoob's Greatest Handguns of the World Volume II (9781440228698): Massad Ayoob: Books

    Hi Blades;

    I do realize that the Model "T" had only been on the market a few years when it was introduced but don't see the 1911 as quite as antiquated in comparison with the current "new crop" of pistols as a Model "t" is to the modern vehicle. Both the old and the new all use the same ammunition design and that's not the same thing as the fact that both old and new cars run on gasoline. The 1911's magazine capacity is less but can't be considered stingy. It's only a matter of personal opinion which system is superior. Some like the nice trigger that a single action with a safety yields and some like DAO simplicity. The weight of the 1911 isn't even an issue in some folks minds. They may appreciate the heft of the all steel pistol. Only personal opinion but I cannot consider the Glock to be the more dependable for it can't beat the perfect satisfaction I've obtained with 1911 reliability. I've not owned a Glock mind you but have shot others for years and kept a loaner here for a year or so. I think my brother-in-law was trying to win me over. Didn't happen. Who knows though; I might trade into one really right and could keep it around for awhile. Only the .45 ACP or 10mm models would be truly interesting.

    That's why Tangle's post is interesting. His shooting impressions of the .45 caliber model, his comments on the trigger, and potential for trigger mods is worthwhile for anyone who is a fan of .45 ACP in designs other than Browning based ones.
    smolck likes this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    I carried a 3rd gen G21 for a few years as number 1. It was a handful no doubt. I rather liked the 13 round mag capacity over the 7 round 1911. Subsequent years, I carried the G30 as number 1 since I grew up with and liked the 45ACP so much at the time. Years later.....once I had gone away from the Glocks in 45ACP...they came out with the SF versions. May be good in ways that I never went back to Glocks in 45ACP. Found something better IMO, and I've always been a fan of single action when it comes to the 45ACP. May be a firm foundation in days gone by, but I still feel the need to be connected to that first 1911A1. You're well aware of my Glock preference by now. Thing is.......Glock is good at many things, but for me.....it's not happening with the 45ACP. That's why I got a SIGP220SAO. Sort of the best of both worlds. Each time we post about pistol mechanics or toying with the trigger pull on hat we have........I think to myself.......how many of the basic CC folks that are here will worry about this sort of thing, much less spend time and money experimenting. How many permit holders will actually ever carry a pistol? While I do think this post is a good one, I think it would only interest a small percentage of those who actually already carry daily....and.....those who could possibly think that Glocks are a good choice for CC in the first place. "America's 45"? I don't think Glock will ever make it so. The basic 1911 will forever be America's 45ACP just like the F-4 Phantom was America's fighter plane. You can't replace icons and you cannot remake history. Even though I firmly believe in Glock....there are certain things that I hold deep in my heart not to be true. Talk to me about the 10mm pistol and I'll listen more intently. But the position of America's 45ACP has already been taken and will never be overcome.

  12. #12
    Member Array DblTapp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Yulee, FL.
    Posts
    43
    G21gen4, great gun!, on my nightstand every night with a laser/light combo and night sights. Good pick up man.
    I want, what they want, and every other guy who came over here and spilled his guts and gave everything he had, wants! For our country to love us as much as we love it! That's what I want!
    - Rambo, John J.

  13. #13
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    ...It is about time we upgraded America's .45, the Glock 21 is a fine replacement for the 1911. Now it is time for me to hide...
    Hiding would probably be a good idea after that!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  14. #14
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,865
    Quote Originally Posted by FLMOPE View Post
    The Glock 21 is my carry weapon at work.

    At our latest qualification it shined ever so bright among the fancy nickel plated sissy pistols.
    I'm glad to hear that. Was the size of the G21 a problem for anyone?

    "nickel plated sissy pistols" Ahhhh, fond memories -Tommy Lee Jones: US Marshals?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    1,955
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    That's Austria's .45.

    This is America's .45.


    Only kidding. Great post of first impressions and fantastic shooting too!
    Nice old Colt! Candy for the Eyes Warmth for the Heart.
    blitzburgh likes this.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

g21 gen 4
,
g21 gen 4 review
,
gen 4 glock 21 review
,
glock 21 gen 4
,
glock 21 gen 4 reliability
,

glock 21 gen 4 review

,
glock 21 gen 4 review 2012
,
glock 21 gen 4 reviews
,
glock 21 gen4 review
,
glock 21 review
,
glock 21 review gen 4
,
glock g21 gen 4 review
Click on a term to search for related topics.