Kahr still the leader?

This is a discussion on Kahr still the leader? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Why do you think Kahr is still the leader in micro 9's with their PM9/CM9? They are one of the smallest guns and have one ...

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    Member Array skystud1's Avatar
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    Kahr still the leader?

    Why do you think Kahr is still the leader in micro 9's with their PM9/CM9? They are one of the smallest guns and have one of the best triggers. It seems like manufacturers went backwards with the new Sig 290, LC9, Nano, etc.. thoughts?

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    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    As a previous owner of an MK9 and 2 PM9's that I had no real issues with, I can say for me that the Shield just blew them out of the water. Even though it's a little bigger than the CM/PM/MK series, I find it just as easy to conceal with a much better trigger and smoother feeding with less felt recoil, not to mention more firepower.

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    Member Array EmperorMA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    As a previous owner of an MK9 and 2 PM9's that I had no real issues with, I can say for me that the Shield just blew them out of the water. Even though it's a little bigger than the CM/PM/MK series, I find it just as easy to conceal with a much better trigger and smoother feeding with less felt recoil, not to mention more firepower.
    ^^^^^^^ This. ^^^^^^^
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    Member Array ramitupurs84's Avatar
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    I think car makes a good gun, I think SW in general have to many moving parts for my liking. Is the Shield plus +p rated? Relevant, maybe. I like the metal magazines in the Kahr.

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    Member Array franco45's Avatar
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    The Shield is quite a bit larger. It is closer in size to the CW9. The trigger must be fantastic because the Kahr trigger is awfully good. I own both the CM9 and the CW9 and recoil is minimal with both.

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    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    As a previous owner of an MK9 and 2 PM9's that I had no real issues with, I can say for me that the Shield just blew them out of the water. Even though it's a little bigger than the CM/PM/MK series, I find it just as easy to conceal with a much better trigger and smoother feeding with less felt recoil, not to mention more firepower.
    Ditto!

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    AOK
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    I think the Shield is every bit as good of a gun as the CM/PM 9 (some may argue better). However, for me there was a big difference in size if you intend to pocket carry. With that said, the Shield has no niche for me. If I am wearing something on my waistband (which is pretty much what majority will do with the S&W) concealment isn't my ultimate concern so I'm not going to drop down from my Glock 23 to a single stack 9. If the Shield was as small as the CM/PM9 then I'd really have a tough time choosing between the two. I hope one day S&W and/or Glock will come out with a true pocket 9mm that can compete with the Kahr CM/PM 9 series.

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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    everyone is rushing to the new Shield because its the newest kid on the block. I've handled one, and its just a skinny M&P 9C which I already own. The small Kahrs still hold a lot of value for what they are, and how they handle. The CM9 is considerable smaller than the Shield which makes the CM9 better for my purposes. I can dump a mag from my CM9 into center mass at ten yards all day long, and since its carried as a BUG to my Glock 19, its fine. If I finally buy a Shield will depend on how much the price drops after the "new gun" demand subsides. Also, I have a Bersa BP 9CC which has a better trigger than the Shield with an incredibly short reset, polyganol rifling in the barrel.....and costs $100 less than the Shield.
    The Bersa is dead nuts accurate, and I doubt the Shield could shoot much better.



    Bersa BP 9CC and Kahr CW9


    Bersa BP 9CC
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    Member Array framedcraig1's Avatar
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    To me ...the CM9 is...+1.
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    Member Array EmperorMA's Avatar
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    I don't think (in fact, I'm rather certain) the Shield was designed for pocket carry, nor is it marketed as such. Those who bash it because "it's too big" don't seem to be willing to bash, say, a G19 because it isn't suited for pocket carry. Pocket guns all have made many concessions to be small enough for that purpose. The Shield is not a pocket carry gun, but it is a highly-concealable, super-comfortable to carry, slim little sweetheart of a gun that feels and shoots much bigger than it is. If that's not what someone needs or wants, fine. It's a great gun in its niche, regardless.
    Last edited by EmperorMA; June 6th, 2012 at 11:24 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorMA View Post
    I don't think (in fact, I'm rather certain) the Shield was designed for pocket carry, nor is it marketed as such. Those who bash it because "it's too big" don't seem to be willing to bash, say, a G19 because it isn't suited for picket carry. Pocket guns all have made many concessions to be small enough for that purpose. The Shield is not a pocket carry gun, but it is a highly-concealable, super-comfortable to carry, slim little sweetheart if a gun that feels and shoots much bigger than it is. If that's not what someone needs or wants, fine. It's a great gun in its niche, regardless.
    I guess the reason it's being bashed here is that this is a thread about micro 9mm pistols. The kind of pistols made for pocket carry. RIF

    Why do you think Kahr is still the leader in micro 9's with their PM9/CM9?
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    Member Array RightyLefty's Avatar
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    I don't own a CM9 but I have shot one. I was looking for a smaller gun for summer carry. I would have bought one if the Shield had not come along. I have no desire to pocket carry so a holster gun is fine for me which is what I and most others consider the Shield to be. Has a better trigger than the CM9 and not as snappy. Love this little gun.

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    New Member Array Tnedator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franco45 View Post
    The Shield is quite a bit larger. It is closer in size to the CW9. The trigger must be fantastic because the Kahr trigger is awfully good. I own both the CM9 and the CW9 and recoil is minimal with both.
    Having not shot the Shield yet, and knowing that it's supposed to be an improvement over the rest of the M&P serious (which I have shot a BUNCH), I think those talking about a better trigger just prefer the Glock/M&P style trigger.

    The PM9 has the incredibly smooth, constant pull, but fairly long trigger pull. You have to fully release the trigger for the reset, which is much different than your Glock/M&P style trigger. Those that like to "take up" the light slack to resistance, and then simple release the trigger to the reset point after firing, probably won't like the much different feel of the PM9 trigger.

    That said, for years, in magazine reviews and people that have shot them, people have raved about the PM9 trigger, so in reality I think it comes down to three things:

    1. Jumping on the "wow, the Shield trigger is awesome" bandwagon.
    2. The Shield trigger having a more distinct reset as compared to the rest of the M&P line
    3. People used to the Glock/M&P type trigger, which is different than the long, buttery smooth DAO action of the PM9.
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    Member Array brianalisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skystud1 View Post
    Why do you think Kahr is still the leader in micro 9's with their PM9/CM9? They are one of the smallest guns and have one of the best triggers. It seems like manufacturers went backwards with the new Sig 290, LC9, Nano, etc.. thoughts?
    The Kahr is NOT the leader in micro 9's! I am not sure what you are referring to as far as the P290 and the LC9 getting it backwards. The Sig P290 is an excellent gun (as is with all their guns, though a little heavy) and LC9 outperforms the Kahr as far as problems, reliability and price. There are threads EVERYWHERE of people having problems with the Kahrs and VERY FEW with the LC9s. They are practically the same size though you get an extra round with the LC9 and you don't have to be so selective on the type of ammo., you don't have to run 200+ rounds through them and you don't have to change the recoil springs at 1000 rounds, not limp-wrist it, sand the magazines down, or any of the other things so many Kahr owners end up doing to get their guns to fire reliably.
    Regarding the P239, I don't see ANY of the complaints in numbers as there are with Kahrs.
    And if Kahr wants to be up there with the creditable manufacturers, they need to improve the skanky advertising as well as the misleading advertising they like to do and THEN FIGURE OUT WHY SO MANY PEOPLE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THEM AND FIX THE PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF MAKING BUYERS JUMP THROUGH THE HOOPS TO FIX THEM THEMSELVES!
    Kahrs are better guns than the Diamondbacks and Kel-tecs, but they are not as good as Glocks, Sigs, Rugers and the like. (talking "consistently" guys as there are many good Kahrs, Diamondbacks, Kel-tecs out there- unfortunately, there are also MANY complaints/problems with them as well and you can buy a gun with a solid reputation OR you can buy a Kahr or Kel-tec and HOPE FOR A GOOD ONE! I would rather put my faith in the ones that have the SOLID CONSISTENT reputations!)
    As somebody else mentioned, the shield is too big to be a pocket or micro-9mm but, being S&W (also a good solid company), it seems to be getting a good reputation for a gun its' size.
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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    All I can say is, I'm not ditching my CW9 for anything currently out there. I've handled a Shield now. It did not impress me to be honest. It is simply a slightly thinner M&P9c. And not nearly enough thinner of you ask me. My CW9 vanishes in an IWB holster. The Kahr has the best out of the box trigger on any gun I have ever purchased, period. It is very, very accurate and has never had a failure, not even in the break in period. So it has not given me a single reason to even consider dumping in for something else.
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