Red Dot Rampage

[ScottM]

Dave Spaulding on living with an RDS-mounted G19 for a year:

Red Dot Rampage

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[P95]

I have considered one of those....too dang high.

[ScottM]

I have considered one of those....too dang high.

Well, yeah...I guess.

It will cost more than the $350 P95 that you have adopted your screen name from.

However my G26, JPoint, milled slide, suppressor sights and threaded barrel all come in well under what many are willing to pay for a 1911.

And it is a much better fighting weapon.

[sgb]

A similarly equipped M&P is on my short list

[glockman10mm]

Well, yeah...I guess.

It will cost more than the $350 P95 that you have adopted your screen name from.

However my G26, JPoint, milled slide, suppressor sights and threaded barrel all come in well under what many are willing to pay for a 1911.

And it is a much better fighting weapon.

Very subjective statement. My bets on the man behind the weapon, rather than the system.

[sgb]

Very subjective statement. My bets on the man behind the weapon, rather than the system.

While I certainly agree that the man/woman behind the gun is the most important part of the equation it doesn't negate the truth in better equipment increasing that shooters edge.

[Tangle]

There are always things about these red dots that don't get mentioned. One, if you don't get the dot instantly in the view finder, it takes a lot of time to find.

BTW, before going on, Bushnell makes a front sensing RDS sight that sells for $149 at MidWay. It's a bit larger than some, but you have to pay about twice that or more to get a bit smaller.

And as for battery conservation:

"...The First Strike conserves battery power with an auto shutoff based on position of your gun.."

The problem with this sight may the Weaver style mount - that isn't compatible with handguns. There may be adapters available.

Ambient light sensing. If you have certain models that sense light overhead, instead of from the front of the sight, strange things can happen. Lets say you are in a dark building and the threat is outside in the bright sunlight. In this situation, the unit senses the dark you're in and dims the dot. You can't see it on the brightly illuminated threat.

Let's take just the opposite. You're in the bright light, lets say under a bright street light, and your threat is in a much darker setting. The sensor sees you are in bright light, after all, it's looking straight up at a light, hence it brightens the dot and literally floods out the threat.

Those that sell these things will total deny and ignore this, but it happens. I had this happen on a top sensing RDS and I was just under a shooting shed with my target in bright sunlight. I could barely see the dot.

I have not had an opportunity to try a front looking sensor - that makes sense but still not sure that it's gonna always work.

Another issue is co-witnessing of the sights with the dot. This often requires machining the slide to get the proper alignment with the iron sights - more expense - the installation cost might be more than the sight costs.

Of course you could just mount it and forget about the co-witness.

I think the strong suite for the RDS is, for people that can't shoot well with iron sights, it can greatly improve their shooting. However, still it depends on how well they can get the dot in the view finder from a draw in a life or death situation. Believe me, it is nothing like finding your sight. Your sight is always in view and easy to see how to correct. If the dot is not in view, you have no idea how to correct.

Then there's the misconception that a RD reflex sight is a single plane sight - IT IS NOT! It is a 2 plane sight. A laser is a single plane sight. The dot appears on a mirrored surface on the eye side of the lens. That's one plane. The other plane is the threat. Does that matter? It does if you can't focus your eyes well at arm's length from your eye! It may still be acceptable if the only effect is a blurred dot, but then that makes the dot look larger and dimmer so...But, your sights will probably be out of focus too. But, for comparison, a laser would be in focus on the threat and is a single plane system.

Then, because of the height and position of the sight, if you are an over the top slide racker, you'll have to change to the slingshot method. Well, I suppose you could let your hand contact the sight face, well, as long as you don't have blood, mud, etc. on your hand that will get on the lens.

Then, is the battery being drained 24/7? It's a small battery; they're supposed to last a year, but that's probably under ideal use and conditions. If a light adjusting type is used, the brighter the ambient light it sees, the brighter the LED and hence the faster the battery is drained.

I don't want you to think I'm necessarily opposed to these things, actually I kind of like them. But these things are expensive and I would think you would want to know as much as you can before you lay out that kind of money.

[ScottM]

Milling is around $200-250 in most cases.

JPoint is $250. The truly excellent Trijicon RMR will cost upwards of $500+, but then again, you get what you pay for.

On battery life, I'm running the same battery for 2 years in my JPoint, and it is carried EDC. The JPoint has no 'shut off', automatic or otherwise. It is constant on. the battery life question is a moot point with a quality unit.

[glockman10mm]

I personally love both sides of the story.

[Tangle]

Milling is around $200-250 in most cases.

JPoint is $250. The truly excellent Trijicon RMR will cost upwards of $500+, but then again, you get what you pay for.

Exactly. Although I wonder if one could really tell $250 difference in the Trijicon and JPoint.

...On battery life, I'm running the same battery for 2 years in my JPoint, and it is carried EDC. The JPoint has no 'shut off', automatic or otherwise. It is constant on. the battery life question is a moot point with a quality unit.

So how do you handle that? Use it until the dot is gone or replace the battery at regular intervals. BTW, do you have to remove the JPoint from the gun to replace the battery? I know you have to on several makes, some of the more expensive ones as I recall.

[claude clay]

if you practice enough to get that on target fast.....
than you will be on target without it also.

but for precision shooting it is superior to iron sights.
just do not expect speed and precision without a great deal of range time.

[Tangle]

if you practice enough to get that on target fast.....
than you will be on target without it also.

And there's the key!. Most 'reports' give the impression you just clamp these things on your gun and you're instantly a faster, better shot. One might be more accurate in slow fire, but speed only comes with lots of practice. Just like Dave talking about how fast, etc. they are, but he already has years of training and practice to align his gun. If the dot coincides with the sights, all that training applies. Well, until the time you don't see the dot in the view finder.

...but for precision shooting it is superior to iron sights.
just do not expect speed and precision without a great deal of range time.

That's good! Right on!

[Tangle]

Guys, I want to be real careful that I'm not giving an anti-RDS impression here. That's not my intent at all. I think what claude clay posted pretty well sums it up from a shooting perspective. It is not an instant fix or cure.

I'm very tempted to get the Bushnell. My RDS is the first generation and has the top looking sensor. I'd like to try a later generation, especially front looking, not so much for speed, but for accuracy. A laser is a similar sighting system, and I can't say it's one bit faster than iron sights. But I am in the process of assessing that. Might as well include a late model RDS in the mix.

I'll give Bushnell a call and see if their RDS can be adapted to a hangun, i.e. adapers. I have two G17 gen 4s; stock sights on one and a RDS on the other should make for some interesting shooting!

[40Bob]

I think it has a lot going for it. It is not for me, I have astigmatism in my right (dominant) eye to the point that ANY RDS is unusable to me.

[ScottM]

Yes, After this one die's I will replace it yearly.

The JPoint does need to be removed, but with co-witness and the milled slot, it easily goes back to zero after removal.

Training issue? With the co-witness, you look for the irons like you have did 1000's of times before and the dot is just there. It's not much of a learning curve.

If you choose to go the dovetail mount route without the irons, then you may find yourself 'chasing the dot' for many repetitions until you get used to it.