Glock 23 Failure To feed - What causes this?

This is a discussion on Glock 23 Failure To feed - What causes this? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I went to the range and shot about 50 rounds of Gold Dot SD ammo 165's that about 20% of the time do not feed ...

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Thread: Glock 23 Failure To feed - What causes this?

  1. #1
    Member Array Backfire's Avatar
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    Glock 23 Failure To feed - What causes this?

    I went to the range and shot about 50 rounds of Gold Dot SD ammo 165's that about 20% of the time do not feed correct. FTF occured
    after the 3rd shot - glock 23 gen 4. I examined this time closely what was going on. The round was near the bottom of the barrel feed ramp. I field stripped and examined the ramp. It had burs on the ramp from the JHP of the gold dots. I worked the slide manually of the remaining 165's and saw that they "start" low on the feed ramp and slide into the chamber. As opposed to 180 grain which are feed without much aid of the
    ramp. Meaning, they are almost direct into the camber. I marked the Magazine and will go out and get a home equity loan
    (about $1 a pop off the shelf) for another test round of gold dots with other mags - to make sure its not the mag. Seems a bit odd that the 165 grain would feed so low on the barrel ramp. But i don't know, its a smaller bullet. 180's almost don't need the barrel ramp - they are already
    nearly lined to the chamber and near the top of the ramp.

    Any Armorers in this place that can set me straight? Do 165's feed low on the barrel feed ramp normally? or is it a suspect mag? I was
    wondering also if i had a bad lot of gold dots - not likely.

    See photo for the ramp i am talking about...

    Ramp.jpg
    Last edited by Backfire; July 4th, 2012 at 04:54 PM.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Could be that your gun doesn't like that ammo. I would polish the feed ramp with a dremmel to smooth it out. How wide are the hollow points and where are they catching. Switch mags, maybe the spring is defective in the one you are using. I have had one FTF in 20 years of shooting glocks.
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    I'd pursue the magazine avenue first.

    It had burs on the ramp from the JHP of the gold dots
    Highly unlikely that jacket material (brass and other soft alloys) could cause a burr on a steel part. If you see jacket material there, chances are it's being deposited on an existing burr that's on the steel.

    Have you tried different magazines (you do have 3 or more, right?) to try to isolate the problem? Does it happen with the first round out of the mag, the third, or the last? If you mix ammo (165-180-165-180, etc), does it still happen?

    I would hold off on any Dremel activites until you rule out magazine problems. One gunsmith I used told me Dremel tools in the hands of amateur gunsmiths are an income stream for him.
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    Member Array Backfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'd pursue the magazine avenue first.



    Highly unlikely that jacket material (brass and other soft alloys) could cause a burr on a steel part. If you see jacket material there, chances are it's being deposited on an existing burr that's on the steel.

    Have you tried different magazines (you do have 3 or more, right?) to try to isolate the problem? Does it happen with the first round out of the mag, the third, or the last? If you mix ammo (165-180-165-180, etc), does it still happen?

    I would hold off on any Dremel activites until you rule out magazine problems. One gunsmith I used told me Dremel tools in the hands of amateur gunsmiths are an income stream for him.
    Never had the problem with 180 FMJ. Probably shot 700 rounds or so with those. But since (after doing some research) i selected Gold Dot 165's for SD, i decides to start shooting 165 FMJ as well. I saw this problem once with Federal 165 fmj. But with the hollow points of gold dot its fairly consistent. I marked the mag today - this weekend will put some more Gold Dots 165's and shoot with different mags. I am a bit frustrated with this Glock 23 gen 4. I had when i first purchased, another problem with ejections hitting me between the eyes occurred with 20% of the shots. After wasting time and angst glock (and locating a armorer) glock sent ejector to fix issue - now this. Glock perfection. Glad to see most guys who own them have had success - that's why i bought it. Love the way it breaks down, handles and shoots (when it does not hit me in head, or feeds). After this weekend i will know if its mag related or not.

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    Member Array Backfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'd pursue the magazine avenue first.



    Highly unlikely that jacket material (brass and other soft alloys) could cause a burr on a steel part. If you see jacket material there, chances are it's being deposited on an existing burr that's on the steel.

    Have you tried different magazines (you do have 3 or more, right?) to try to isolate the problem? Does it happen with the first round out of the mag, the third, or the last? If you mix ammo (165-180-165-180, etc), does it still happen?

    I would hold off on any Dremel activites until you rule out magazine problems. One gunsmith I used told me Dremel tools in the hands of amateur gunsmiths are an income stream for him.
    Yea i am not gonna grind on a 3 month old gun. The ramp is smooth as i can make it with cleaning. I will find out if problem is mag related. I suspect it is not.

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    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    I suspect the magazine also. That being said, Dremmel has a polishing cone about 7/8" long by 3/8" wide (approximately) that is perfect for polishing this area with a little rouge. Patience is needed - polish a bit, wipe off and polish wipe off etc. In a few minutes you can have a mirror finish slick as glass.

    I only shot target loads in mine for the first 50 or so rounds so things could wear a tad. Never had any problems to date.
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    I'm a G23 gen 3 guy here........

    Most of the time it's gonna be a Mag issue. I bought 6 or 7 extra mags when I bought my gun and had 1 mag just gave me fits...... turned out that mag-spring was bent at the floor plate. Go figure. Now having an issue with 'just' 165 GD's? That's kinda strange but stranger things have happened.

    If you've located an armorer I'd have him look at those 'burs' on the ramp, but switch out that mag first.

    Keep us updated on this...... this is an intresting problem.
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Well, send me the rest of your 165gr GDHPs and I'll try them out in my 3rd gen G23.
    Personally, I wouldn't have gone and bought any more of the Speer 165gr........I would have got some Remington Golden Sabers or the next thing available in your area to test the ammo theory. I'm hoping you don't have any burs on the feed ramp, maybe just galling. As for the real issue? No tellin', but I think it's an ammo issue. When you get one of those jams, have you tried smacking the bottom of the magazine to see if they will go ahead and feed? Have you examined any of the rounds that wouldn't feed to see if the case mouth is catching somewhere or if they have any small dents or dings closer to the case head?
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    "Highly unlikely that jacket material (brass and other soft alloys) could cause a burr on a steel part."

    I'm sure that he was meaning to say that he found traces or pieces of bullet jacket material on the steel feed ramp.
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    Member Array Backfire's Avatar
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    Yep - poor wording. Burr is not correct. Gold Dot "gold" was hard to clean off the ramp. But its gone now.

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    Member Array ramitupurs84's Avatar
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    I'd send it back to Glock before I ruined it myself.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backfire View Post
    Yep - poor wording. Burr is not correct. Gold Dot "gold" was hard to clean off the ramp. But its gone now.
    Some of us pretty much figured that, but you never know. The only thing one has to work with is information given and assume at times. Wording? Not a big priority, but helpful. We just need to solve a problem is what we do know.
    If you call Glock, they may very well tell you the same thing........try different ammo. I've been using Remingtons in my 40cal Glocks for a long time with no problems. Every pistol from any reputable manufacturer should definitely feed all commercially available FMJ ammo without any problems. Where you get into the fine print and not so much guaranteed is especially with using 'exotic ammo', or out of the norm. End user takes the risk here. Not much will be done in re-engineering a pistol from the factory for the loads that you particularly want to use. Time and again, folks have found what works best in their pistols and those which are more or less reliable. It's one of those things. Carry and carry ammo sort of deviates from the manufacturer's engineered design which by the way covers (most) modern ammo although on average, deviations in manufactured ammo cannot be totally 100% accounted for. This is the point at which we all need to figure out (as end user) what works and what won't in our pistols......modify them, or ask the manufacturer to do so to our specific needs.
    If I might dare to say....the 40S&W might be one of the more finicky cartridges depending on pistol and brand. I will also go out on a limb and say that I figure your 165gr GDHP would probably feed and function fine in the full size Glock. That's just me and knowing Glocks (and the 40cal) for a lot of years. I also think that shorter barrels and more compact models rely more on the engineering and magazine design than the full sized models. It is what it is I reckon.

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    Member Array Backfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Some of us pretty much figured that, but you never know. The only thing one has to work with is information given and assume at times. Wording? Not a big priority, but helpful. We just need to solve a problem is what we do know.
    If you call Glock, they may very well tell you the same thing........try different ammo. I've been using Remingtons in my 40cal Glocks for a long time with no problems. Every pistol from any reputable manufacturer should definitely feed all commercially available FMJ ammo without any problems. Where you get into the fine print and not so much guaranteed is especially with using 'exotic ammo', or out of the norm. End user takes the risk here. Not much will be done in re-engineering a pistol from the factory for the loads that you particularly want to use. Time and again, folks have found what works best in their pistols and those which are more or less reliable. It's one of those things. Carry and carry ammo sort of deviates from the manufacturer's engineered design which by the way covers (most) modern ammo although on average, deviations in manufactured ammo cannot be totally 100% accounted for. This is the point at which we all need to figure out (as end user) what works and what won't in our pistols......modify them, or ask the manufacturer to do so to our specific needs.
    If I might dare to say....the 40S&W might be one of the more finicky cartridges depending on pistol and brand. I will also go out on a limb and say that I figure your 165gr GDHP would probably feed and function fine in the full size Glock. That's just me and knowing Glocks (and the 40cal) for a lot of years. I also think that shorter barrels and more compact models rely more on the engineering and magazine design than the full sized models. It is what it is I reckon.
    Thanks good info. I think the gold dot 165's are fairly common to many law enforcement locations around the country. Thats one reason why i chose GD. I did inspect my mag it failed in from the others i have. The angle of the round differs some for each round i manually push out with finger. There is a difference from the other mags i also did the same using FMJ 180's. I will test this weekend and try again the 165's GD's. Mag failed after only a few months of use - if this is the case. Your theory on the .40 cal makes sense as it being finicky on mags.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    As a Kimber man I can't believe what I am reading. I thought only the ancient, outdated, and unreliable 1911 was subject to misfires and mag failures (of which I have had ZERO). Are you telling me that the mighty Glock is also subject to failure as a mechanical device? Is it snowing in hell?

    EDIT: To all you glockophiles out there, relax, it was a joke.
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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    While not a Glock fan at all they are for the most part relieable and funtion well.
    Your issue is not uncommon with Autos from time to time.
    As others have said.
    1. Mag would be first
    2. If the weapon is new sometimes they are fuzzy about use of some rounds
    3. In my life I have had a couple Autos that just not like some rounds. Had an older 9mm that would shoot anything all day long except CCI.
    4. There is always the out side chance of a manufacture defect, Not something you see everyday in high end Autos but it does happen.
    Short barrel weapons are often right at the limits they need to be almost prefect to wrk 100% of the time.
    Take it down clean and lube it well change the mag shoot the heck out of it with some cheap ball. Clean it try your fancy rounds if it works well try your first mag and see if it fails.
    If that does not work call Glock

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