Situation from last night - Am I over thinking it?

This is a discussion on Situation from last night - Am I over thinking it? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not generally a night person. I don't "Go out" a lot. However, I am also single and dating usually occurs at night so sometimes ...

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Thread: Situation from last night - Am I over thinking it?

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Situation from last night - Am I over thinking it?

    I'm not generally a night person. I don't "Go out" a lot. However, I am also single and dating usually occurs at night so sometimes I am out till midnight or 1:00AM. It's also EXTREMELY rare that I eat fast food however last night I was absolutely starving on the way home from a date so I hit the McDonald drive through. It was one of those 2 lane ones where you merge before the window and it was pretty busy. I am in the outer lane. So, I order my food pull and pull up. There is a car in the inner lane that is also doing the same thing. There are three men in the car. I would guess probably early 20's and what I would generally describe as the typical banger type. Traffic in front of us isn't moving. All of a sudden the guy ridding shot gun leans out the window and says something that I am fairly certain is directed at me. I ignore him. The car at the front of the line moves up, they move up and I move up behind the. The guy leans out of the window again and says (what sounded like) "Wat the F you lookin at???" I ignore him again but slide the can of fox OC spray out of my center console so that I'm ready if I need to hose the guy down. The guy sitting in the back seat has turned around a few times and looked at. I was not carrying at the time because I knew I would be having a couple drinks while I was out. Honestly, having my gun probably would not have done me any good because even if I had needed to use it I couldn't have because there were 3-4 cars full of people behind what would be my first target so I could not have safely gotten a shot off (but that's not really the point). The guys door open and he makes a move like he is going to get out - then gets back in. The line starts moving at a decent pace and I am out in another min. No conflict.

    For those that haven't seem my recent posts I recently bought a jframe as a small summer carry predicated on the idea that 5 rounds is plenty for the vast majority of situations that I find myself in. The first thing I thought last night when I thought a conflict might be starting? - While this is a uncomfortable situation regardless of what gun I could have possibly been carrying, I would have felt a lot MORE comfortable with 10+1 in my G26 and a backup mag than with a jframe with a speed loader. I thought "All three of those guys could be armed...5 rounds for three potential targets isn't good odds (Not that 3 on 1 is good odds anyway...)". Maybe that same situation occurs someplace where I could have safely defended myself with my CCW without fear of innocents behind my target.. People like this travel in packs. In a similar situation where I would have been armed what more than likely would have happened is I would have OC sprayed the guy and that would have been it. His buddies probably wouldn't have wanted anything to do with me. Or maybe I hose their buddy and the other 2 get out with a bat or a pipe, I draw my weapon and they probably don't want anything to do with me after that. Maybe its REALLY bad and I put a couple rounds in the first guy but the others take off not wanting anything to do with me after that... But what if they don't? What if I drop their buddy and the other 2 emerge from the car with guns? I've always said to myself that the chances of needing to use my gun are slim to none and the chances of having to engage more than 1 threat is even less. BUT, last night sitting in a McDonald's drive through I thought it was a serious possibility.

    Thoughts?
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I think the j-frame is a fine choice. One can always come up with scenarios where the weapon that they have at the moment would not be adequate. If you were carrying the 10+1 G26 and a buss load of terrorists was in line at the McDonald's you would still be under gunned.

    Michael
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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I think the j-frame is a fine choice. One can always come up with scenarios where the weapon that they have at the moment would not be adequate. If you were carrying the 10+1 G26 and a buss load of terrorists was in line at the McDonald's you would still be under gunned.

    Michael
    Agreed, but there wasn't a bus load of terrorists. There WERE however a car full of thugs...
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    Member Array Glocked's Avatar
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    I try to leave enough space between me and the guy ahead of me at the drive thru and at stop lights etc. Hopefully I can crank the wheel and go over a curb if the need arises. I think you did just fine. I carry a G26 or my G30 and I have the same thoughts about enough ammo along for the ride. When is enough enough? Usually I don't bring extra clips. I like to think there is usually a way out if needed. I know peeps that carry 3 mags with them. Cool beans....I don't think I need to in Wisconsin even though crime is everywhere. Just my thoughts. Pepper spray is in the near future for me. This could get me out of a lot of situations. Cool post. Thanks for sharing.

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    Well, first, glad it was a non-event! Second, I you're typically not underarmed, but if you wanted, add some additional rounds via a speedloader or such.

    I think you have it right. Good SA, etc.

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    I wouldn't say you're "over" thinking last night's situation; the good thing is, you're applying some critical thought to it, and that's a good thing. But - you can always find yourself in a situation where even a crew-served M2 might not be "enough gun". No matter the gun, just having one improves your odds.

    Don't forget your brain is the weapon; the gun, the pepper spray, and the multi-ton vehicle you're in are the tools available to you. Adapt - improvise - overcome!
    Smitty
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    I am always carrying at minimum a Glock 19 with two extra 17 mags, largely so I won't have those "am I undergunned?" conversations with myself or others. I never use alcohol, and I don't own pepper spray.
    Badey likes this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Agreed, but there wasn't a bus load of terrorists. There WERE however a car full of thugs...
    Yea I suppose I might have been a bit casual in my response. Its that false sense of security that the M1-a and couple hundred rounds of ammo I normally have in my vehicle that does that to me.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    I recently did some defensive drills at the range. One drill was engaging 4 targets from about 5 yards with my sig p238. I was amazed at how fast all seven rounds went! I would have been empty, and theoretically defenseless had some of my shots not taken effect.
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Rollo, no I don't think you're over-thinking things. You're right: all it takes is a couple/three homeys in a car who all decide to dare to become felons, to make a single five-shot alternative at your disposal seem cutting it a bit close. IMO, occasions where there is more than one person in a situation of potential attacker isn't all that rare. Hence my preference for a bit more firepower. It's a decision you need to make, based on what you feel you're likely to see. Though you just saw how easy it is to see such things.

    As you and others have suggested (in this and other threads), having one or two weapons isn't being unable to defend. Very likely, demeanor that shows you're utterly prepared to stop a threat will stop it; if not, your weapons/ammo likely will. And you're unlikely to require all ammo, even if resorting to a spray or a 5-6 shot firearm for defense. Keep in mind, too, that you were in your vehicle, which itself is a decent mobile weapon of sorts, one that can help shield you from inbound threats as well as egress from them. (Am assuming you left a decent amount of space between you and the cars ahead, allowing for an 'out' if it came to that.)

    You'll need to evaluate your capabilities, the likely situations you'll find yourself in, and ALL of your resources that you'll be able to bring to bear for types of situations ... including demeanor, speech, egress (ie, in the vehicle), a weapon (H2H, spray, firearm, whatever). We might well present some suggestions, here, but keep in mind that's based on our own assumptions, understanding, capabilities, and what we each imagine such a situation to likely be like (often based on prior experiences). What you are able to achieve based on your background, capabilities and the situation at hand might well lead to a different comfort level about what preparations you feel you should have.
    Rollo likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Let me see if I understand this. You previously didn't think carrying large capacity weapon was a factor for you, because you doubted you would ever be in that situation and the chances of you tangling with 3+ villains was less than that.

    Last night...because of situational awareness...you found yourself uncomfortably close to such a incident without your weapon?
    You have just been fed a big bite of reality with your eyes wide open...and without protection. Doesn't feel good....does it?

    You will know what changes in how and when you carry, but there can be no doubt about that feeling last night. I dare say that many (if not all of us) have had that feeling on some occasion. Isn't that one reason we are here? Stuff can hit the "fan" at any time...at any place and involving any number of people. We have to be reasonable otherwise we would be hauling about trailers for all equipment for all the possibilities ( and that probably still not fit all the needs especially for zombies and space aliens ). Take care and I think you did a good job of being alert and assessing the possibilities of that McDonald's visit.

    Good idea on the spray.
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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    I've stated several times on this forum that I carry a Glock 19 or Glock 26 with two extra fifteen round mags....and have been called Rambo, Gekko45, Mall Ninja.....PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFttttttttttttt ttttttt!! CCW ignoramous'.

    I've never been in a situation where I wished I had fewer rounds, but several where 46 rounds of 9mm made me feel pretty good.
    Spirit51, Mike1956 and Vaquero 45 like this.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Said another way: have enough "gun." How much is enough? Depends on the situation, which you'll never know is coming until it's upon you. Hence different methods of defense, weapons, greater capacity, spare loads. With more options available, the more options you'll have for dealing with variable situations.

    Now ... where did I leave that mobile missile launcher with optional tow-hitch attachment?
    Spirit51 and W9HDG like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    I've often wondered if I needed an extra 15 round magazine whether I'd live long enough to get the first 15 rounds down the pipe.

    I understand where you are coming from, but in most situations a j-frame will do.

    Also, in any situation, we'll try non-violent de-escalation first, or conflict avoidance if possible. If those three wanted to go gunning for you, a j-frame, a G26, or an AK may not have made much difference.

    One take away, though - avoid the late night crowd, especially the post-bar closing crowd. Next time you'll just have to fix yourself a baloney sandwich when you get home.
    Rollo and goldmaster like this.

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Rollo, I do not think that you are "over thinking this". BGs are traveling in packs, IMO you had what I like to call "the come to jesus moment" I think you have found that your G26 is the weapon you should carry. Not because the revolver sucks, but because it might not be enough for all the situations you might encounter....

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