How many times were 5 shots not enough? - Page 15

How many times were 5 shots not enough?

This is a discussion on How many times were 5 shots not enough? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Maverickx50 From what I've heard the theater was posted "NO GUNS" Besides that fact that the sign did not stop the crazy ...

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Thread: How many times were 5 shots not enough?

  1. #211
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverickx50 View Post
    From what I've heard the theater was posted "NO GUNS" Besides that fact that the sign did not stop the crazy guy; I'm wondering if that will be a "key" point in the theater's liability in the upcoming legal actions by the victims.

    I Wisconsin you give up and legal protection from liability for injury if you post "NO GUNS"
    Sorry to the OP going off topic but... The SCOUS has ruled several times that law enforcement has no legal obligation to protect you individually. The same can be said for privately owned business. The no gun signage helps protect them financially from legal liability. They did their part by posting a legal no guns allowed sign. What could the theater have done to prevent this tragedy, hired security guards?

    A movie theater operates on a thin profit margin. In fact, their major income comes from the sale of popcorn.

    I don't necessarily agree with the law but, that's how it is.
    I think, therefore I am...

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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Now that the Colorado shooting happened and this is a fresh little reminder of what can happen. Anyone here want to step up and be the first and say that five rounds would have been enough with 100% certainty to take this whacko out?

    Heck this has me rethinking the days in which I go light with a 9mm pocket carry and spare mag. Even then it's still 14 rounds and I am rethinking my carry routine. I guess I will carry the Glock or M&P more even in the summer.
    The unfortunate events have not made me reconsider relying on a j-frame. Truth be told, I simply don't plan for defense scenarios like this. If I did, I'd arm up with a bullpup long gun, a protective vest and helmet, and probably have a couple of Glock 22's on matching thigh holsters.

    I prepare for petty criminals, street thugs, punks, evil opportunists, and even murderous thieves. But I can only live my life with so much fear - and for that reason the rare sociopaths that arm up with the intent to kill dozens are not on my radar.

    If others change their minds, so be it, and good for them. I'm not going to second guess anyone's personal choices in matters like this.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis1209 View Post
    Sorry to the OP going off topic but... The SCOUS has ruled several times that law enforcement has no legal obligation to protect you individually. The same can be said for privately owned business. The no gun signage helps protect them financially from legal liability. They did their part by posting a legal no guns allowed sign. What could the theater have done to prevent this tragedy, hired security guards?

    A movie theater operates on a thin profit margin. In fact, their major income comes from the sale of popcorn.

    I don't necessarily agree with the law but, that's how it is.
    Yup. And it is generally not a foreseeable risk that lunatics shoot up movie theaters, so there's generally no duty on the theater's part to protect you from armed shooters. If people are that worried about being unprotected at a particular theater, then don't go to that theater.

    And wasn't that silly Wisconsin rumor about liability resulting from NO GUNS signs put to rest months ago? Guess it wasn't dead, but only moribund...

  4. #214
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, in Colorado the gun buster signs do not hold force of law. The thater's stance will be they were posted, they did their part. The guy didn't obey the sign.

    It also seems that people are assuming that if you carry a 5 shot snub, that is all you ever carry and when you do carry it you don't carry any reloads. I think a 5 shot revolver has merit and a place in your lineup of available tools, but I wouldn't replace my entire collection of available tools with it. For example, today, I was at our community pool all day (which has restricted access) and I had my 442 in my swim trunks right pocket inside of a freezer bag and 3 speed loaders in my left pocket in a freezer bag. The gun could be pulled and fired from inside the bag if necessary. Of the 16 handguns that I own, this is the only gun I could carry in my swim trunks pocket while swimming in the pool for hours in this manner and still be able to fire it from inside the bag. We go to the beach often, and I do this at the beach also. When I take my kids to the movies, I typically sport my XD40sc and 2 extra mags. When I go to the mall, same thing. When I go to Tampa, I carry both the XD and 442. I don't see why it has to be viewed as ONLY this or ONLY that. To me, it is carry what you are able to carry given your circumstance.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  5. #215
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    BigDude I bow down.

    I have my 642 in a pocket holster at the bottom of my pool bag (about 90% of the time I'm not swimming and I am by the bag). And I thought I was prepared at the pool.

  6. #216
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I don't see why it has to be viewed as ONLY this or ONLY that. To me, it is carry what you are able to carry given your circumstance.
    It's all about having options. Right now it's a G26 IWB. Yesterday is was a P3AT in the pocket. Maybe it will be a 637 IWB or in the pocket tomorrow ( or whenever it get back from S&W)
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  7. #217
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    Wow!! Well over 200 posts with a lot of gun store commando talk and yet only two direct responses to the OP question. Amazing!
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    "If you only knew the power of the dark side!" - Darth Vader

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I could not say with 100% certainly that one hundred rounds and a hand grenade backup would have been enough.

    Michael
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    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  9. #219
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    You can't prepare for every possible scenario and live any sort of normal life. You just can't. You're enjoying a premier movie event and a guy appears in body armor with a pistol, an AR, a shotgun, and he's tossing tear gas. "Fortunately, sitting inside my M-1 Abrams tank, my date and I were fully prepared for just such an event."
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Truth be told, I simply don't plan for defense scenarios like this.
    It's obvious neither did anyone else that night......
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    You can't prepare for every possible scenario and live any sort of normal life. You just can't. You're enjoying a premier movie event and a guy appears in body armor with a pistol, an AR, a shotgun, and he's tossing tear gas. "Fortunately, sitting inside my M-1 Abrams tank, my date and I were fully prepared for just such an event."
    That is true. Yesterday I was in my garage and fired up my table saw. Had the garage door open. So I am making my cuts and I look up and did a quick paraniod after action on what could have happened. A guy)s) could have walked across my front lawn where I could not see him (them) and turned the corner and bang! They would have been right in front of me with my hands on the wood and head down and ear muffs on.

    So, what do I do next time? Keep garage door shut? Do a walk around the house to make sure no one is around before I start working? Or realize I live in a safe neighborhood and that the odds are greatly in my favor of that never happening?

    You can't live life what if'ing every scenario and then get paraniod because a similar incident did occur.

    Another example: I am a male, in good shape. I run a lot and wear headphones and do not carry while runniing. Why? It is so rare for a male runner to be assualted in daylight while jogging. And if so all they would get is a 20 dollar mp3 player. Of course someoone can bring up that a runner got gunned down 2 months ago for no reason. But what are the odds of that happening and what could he have done to prevent it? After 10 miles your SA goes down hill a tad

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I could not say with 100% certainly that one hundred rounds and a hand grenade backup would have been enough.

    Michael
    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    If the guy that was laying at his feet while he was shooting would have put 5 shots straight up between his legs, then it may have been enough. On the other hand, a shotgun, AR15, 2 pistols, and body armor...there may not be a CCW on the planet that would have been enough. IF ifs and buts were candy and nuts...truth is no one there had anyting, so the world will never know what may or may not have been "enough."




    ^^^^^^^^^^^To adress these two quotes^^^^^^^


    Acording to what I've read, the Colorado Shooter had only a tactical vest, which may have been mistaken for a BP vest.
    Unless someone else has other evidence stating otherwise, I'd say a CCW/CPL holder would have had this guy down the drain before you could say Jack be Nimble........

    From article;
    Police: Colo. suspect planned attack for months - Yahoo! News

    During the attack early Friday, Oates said Holmes used a military-style semi-automatic rifle, a shotgun and a pistol to open fire on the unsuspecting theater-goers. He had bought the weapons at local gun stores within the last two months. He recently purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the Internet, the chief said.

    Holmes also bought an urban assault vest, two magazine holders and a knife for just over $300 on July 2 from an online supplier of tactical gear for police and military personnel, according to the company.

    Chad Weinman, CEO of TacticalGear.com, said his company processes thousands of orders each day, and there was nothing unusual in the one that Holmes placed.

    "Everything Mr. Holmes purchased on July 2 is commercially available," Weinman said, adding he was "appalled" that the material was sold to Holmes before the shooting.




    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    My recent luck with a J frame says no...


    ^^^^^^^^^Rollo^^^^^^^^^
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  13. #223
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That is true. Yesterday I was in my garage and fired up my table saw. Had the garage door open. So I am making my cuts and I look up and did a quick paraniod after action on what could have happened. A guy)s) could have walked across my front lawn where I could not see him (them) and turned the corner and bang! They would have been right in front of me with my hands on the wood and head down and ear muffs on.

    So, what do I do next time? Keep garage door shut? Do a walk around the house to make sure no one is around before I start working? Or realize I live in a safe neighborhood and that the odds are greatly in my favor of that never happening?

    You can't live life what if'ing every scenario and then get paraniod because a similar incident did occur.

    Another example: I am a male, in good shape. I run a lot and wear headphones and do not carry while runniing. Why? It is so rare for a male runner to be assualted in daylight while jogging. And if so all they would get is a 20 dollar mp3 player. Of course someoone can bring up that a runner got gunned down 2 months ago for no reason. But what are the odds of that happening and what could he have done to prevent it? After 10 miles your SA goes down hill a tad
    Thank you. I agree. You pick up your morning newspaper and read where someone in your city was killed when an out of control car came crashing through their bedroom wall while they were sleeping. You decide that in the future, you would be safer sleeping on the sofa in your den.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  14. #224
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Regardless of the type of vest, he was wearing other items of a protective nature (neck cover, helmet, etc.). He also had an AR15, 12 ga shotgun, and 2 .40 caliber Glocks. In addition to the amount of firepower, he had deployed 2 smoke/gas canisters. In addition to that, there were 300 people in full panic, in the dark, with a loud movie going. There are too many variables to know if a person would have been able to successfully mount a counter attack. Now, I do not know the dimensions of that particular theater, but the last one I was in was large. Depending on where a particular CC patron was sitting, proximity, number of people between them, whether the smoke/gas was impacting them, etc. it would be difficult to predict a person's success. That's a lot to overcome, not to say that it couldn't, but the odds would be stacked against you from the very beginning. I will say that if a person had a gun instead of a box of popcorn, they would have at least improved their odds. Whether a patron handgun (regardless of type) would have actually made any difference with regard to the outcome is something the world will never know. That has been and will be speculated thousands of times.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  15. #225
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    That is true. Yesterday I was in my garage and fired up my table saw. Had the garage door open. So I am making my cuts and I look up and did a quick paraniod after action on what could have happened. A guy)s) could have walked across my front lawn where I could not see him (them) and turned the corner and bang! They would have been right in front of me with my hands on the wood and head down and ear muffs on.

    So, what do I do next time? Keep garage door shut? Do a walk around the house to make sure no one is around before I start working? Or realize I live in a safe neighborhood and that the odds are greatly in my favor of that never happening?

    You can't live life what if'ing every scenario and then get paraniod because a similar incident did occur.

    Another example: I am a male, in good shape. I run a lot and wear headphones and do not carry while runniing. Why? It is so rare for a male runner to be assualted in daylight while jogging. And if so all they would get is a 20 dollar mp3 player. Of course someoone can bring up that a runner got gunned down 2 months ago for no reason. But what are the odds of that happening and what could he have done to prevent it? After 10 miles your SA goes down hill a tad
    In reality, you are much more likely to be run over by a car while you are running than anything else...better get a treadmill.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

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