How many times were 5 shots not enough?

This is a discussion on How many times were 5 shots not enough? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by wolverine181 So I look to the right and see 30-40 african americans walking right towards us. I am the last one to ...

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Thread: How many times were 5 shots not enough?

  1. #301
    Member Array CAS_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine181 View Post
    So I look to the right and see 30-40 african americans walking right towards us.
    I am the last one to care about PC, but even I am wondering why the race reference in the story.


    For all the reasons that others have given for going with volume of rounds to cover as many risks as they can in bettering their odds, there is no question or doubt that a revolver is more reliable in firing over even the most reliable semi auto. It is possible that choosing a five shot that option is really the better odds than a ten shot statistically lesser reliable option.

    I can hear all the Glock guys screaming how reliable their semi is. An, no doubt, they are very reliable. But using the common odds argument found throughout this thread, wouldn't you want to eliminate as much risk of failure to fire as possible, no matter how small. A revolver is statistically a more reliable firearm. That is not up for debate. Choosing a semi for more rounds does incur a different statistical risk associated with operability.

    It all boils down to choosing based on your perception of need. I am certain, there are many scenarios where your well thought out choice will not suit the scenario you face in the real world as opposed to the ones you imagined.

    I have a six shot revolver. It does go bang every time I pull the trigger and if it doesn't go bang, it seamlessly moves to the next round where it will go bang. I often see the FTF, FTL, FTE at the range - yes, even on the Glocks. My scenario has me favoring the statistical advantage of going bang without the critical time necessary to intervene, over 10 rounds with higher risk of operational failure.

    If you disagree, it is simply an example of how the scenarios we imagine play into our carry choice.
    Last edited by CAS_Shooter; August 5th, 2012 at 07:21 AM.
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  3. #302
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    At times, I carry both my XD40sc and 442. That greatly reduces the odds of both failing at the same time.
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  4. #303
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAS_Shooter View Post
    I can hear all the Glock guys screaming how reliable their semi is. An, no doubt, they are very reliable. But using the common odds argument found throughout this thread, wouldn't you want to eliminate as much risk of failure to fire as possible, no matter how small. A revolver is statistically a more reliable firearm. That is not up for debate. Choosing a semi for more rounds does incur a different statistical risk associated with operability.

    I have a six shot revolver. It does go bang every time I pull the trigger and if it doesn't go bang, it seamlessly moves to the next round where it will go bang. I often see the FTF, FTL, FTE at the range - yes, even on the Glocks. My scenario has me favoring the statistical advantage of going bang without the critical time necessary to intervene, over 10 rounds with higher risk of operational failure.

    If you disagree, it is simply an example of how the scenarios we imagine play into our carry choice.
    Nobody is dissing the revolver one bit. A good revolver shooter is a force to be reckoned with. This thread is all about "Do you need any reloads?". I love my revolvers, I run them very well, I love 1911's and run them well. My carry gun has to do more about practicality and logic than emotion. Its not all about high capacity, it is also about hitting them hard enough to make a difference. I do not want to add a caliber war to this thread. I still carry a J frame 357, as a BUG. The benefit for me for carrying the (insert favorite polymer wonder) is that it is a tool. If I drop it, if I do get in a shooting and lose it, if it gets beat up, who cares? for $400 I can get another just like it. I cannot replace my 3" model 13 so easy and my 640 Pro is $700.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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  5. #304
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    If 5 shots is enough and for what ever reason you feel you do not need anymore ammo just carry one of these.


    Ruger Vaquero 44 Special, 3 3/4", Sheriffs Model, Blue Finish, Black Grips - Impact Guns
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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  6. #305
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    If 5 shots is enough and for what ever reason you feel you do not need anymore ammo just carry one of these.


    Ruger Vaquero 44 Special, 3 3/4", Sheriffs Model, Blue Finish, Black Grips - Impact Guns
    I have the same gun only made by USFA, and it is part of my carry rotation.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #306
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    I'm a j-frame guy, but I must admit, five shots would not be enough to kill this thread.


  8. #307
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^To adress these two quotes^^^^^^^


    Acording to what I've read, the Colorado Shooter had only a tactical vest, which may have been mistaken for a BP vest.
    Unless someone else has other evidence stating otherwise, I'd say a CCW/CPL holder would have had this guy down the drain before you could say Jack be Nimble........

    From article;
    Police: Colo. suspect planned attack for months - Yahoo! News

    During the attack early Friday, Oates said Holmes used a military-style semi-automatic rifle, a shotgun and a pistol to open fire on the unsuspecting theater-goers. He had bought the weapons at local gun stores within the last two months. He recently purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the Internet, the chief said.

    Holmes also bought an urban assault vest, two magazine holders and a knife for just over $300 on July 2 from an online supplier of tactical gear for police and military personnel, according to the company.

    Chad Weinman, CEO of TacticalGear.com, said his company processes thousands of orders each day, and there was nothing unusual in the one that Holmes placed.

    "Everything Mr. Holmes purchased on July 2 is commercially available," Weinman said, adding he was "appalled" that the material was sold to Holmes before the shooting.








    ^^^^^^^^^Rollo^^^^^^^^^
    What can I say....

    ,But I got a chuckle out of that!
    Ive been thinking about the one point for a week now about the tactical vest, and given the circumstances im doubtful that i would have been able to effectively engage him because of the light filtering through the tear gas factor. I always always sit in the rear of the theater opposite the door because i do carry and its not exclusively just for me and mine. I would have assumed he was wearing kevlar underneath. Would i have tried to suppress? If i was not hit in the initial burst of gunfire, definitely. But in those conditions i cannot say for certain that it would have done much good.
    Seen some posts about how one gun would have changed it, not too likely because he planned this and did it well. Although a guy leaving through the fire exit certainly would have caught my attention, i was one of those who snuck friends in so cant say for sure i would have been ready.

  9. #308
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    This thread is all about "Do you need any reloads?"
    Actually, this thread is not about reloads. I carry 5 shot snubs quite a bit and usually carry 3 speed loaders with them. With a lot of practice, I can now reload my snub from last shot to next shot within a half second of my XD40sc semi auto. Just because one chooses to carry a 5 shot revolver does not mean they are only carrying 5 shots. The whole point of the thread was just to see if there were any 1st hand accounts of anyone having to fire more than 5 shots regardless of why type of weapon or platform was used.
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    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  10. #309
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    I'm a j-frame guy, but I must admit, five shots would not be enough to kill this thread.

    Amen brother, this thread just won't die. Perhaps some garlic and a wooden stake would do it.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  11. #310
    Member Array CAS_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Nobody is dissing the revolver one bit..
    I think I was not clear. I was not suggesting anyone was dissing the revolver. I was responding to the many that suggested a need to carry a semi because they did think that five was not enough. I was offering that the logic that more is better could fall apart when an FTL or FTE resulted in a split second vulnerability from the bad guy. Revolvers have no FTL or FTE. In a case where three is enough, but the semi jammed at two. Well, you get the picture. I was just saying that fore every scenario where one thinks their decision is in favor of their odds, there are other scenarios where that same decision might be the reason for greater risk.

  12. #311
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    My Glock will jam occasionally, if I feed it crap ammo. Clean modern guns with good ammo and magazines don't routinely have malfunctions.

    I routinely shoot 2-300 rounds at a time. I've gone 800+ in a single 10hr training class.

    I'm not worried about a jam on round 1 or 2.

    Besides having more ammo to begin with, 10+ rounds means you have to manipulate the gun less, and therefore have less chance to fumble the reload.

    Just my humble and experienced opinion.

  13. #312
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAS_Shooter View Post
    I think I was not clear. I was not suggesting anyone was dissing the revolver. I was responding to the many that suggested a need to carry a semi because they did think that five was not enough. I was offering that the logic that more is better could fall apart when an FTL or FTE resulted in a split second vulnerability from the bad guy. Revolvers have no FTL or FTE. In a case where three is enough, but the semi jammed at two. Well, you get the picture. I was just saying that fore every scenario where one thinks their decision is in favor of their odds, there are other scenarios where that same decision might be the reason for greater risk.
    Got it. A quality semi auto is every bit as reliable as a revolver. I have had revolvers suffer from ammo issues, high primers, powder under the extractor star, cases that slip past the extractor star. They are not immune malfunctions either.

    Actually, this thread is not about reloads. I carry 5 shot snubs quite a bit and usually carry 3 speed loaders with them. With a lot of practice, I can now reload my snub from last shot to next shot within a half second of my XD40sc semi auto. Just because one chooses to carry a 5 shot revolver does not mean they are only carrying 5 shots. The whole point of the thread was just to see if there were any 1st hand accounts of anyone having to fire more than 5 shots regardless of why type of weapon or platform was used.
    Got it.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

    “Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.”
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