How many times were 5 shots not enough? - Page 9

How many times were 5 shots not enough?

This is a discussion on How many times were 5 shots not enough? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; G'morning one shot. Coffee? Excellent post, since I live and work in ole Mexico, I would like to clear up a point, getting permission for ...

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Thread: How many times were 5 shots not enough?

  1. #121
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    G'morning one shot. Coffee? Excellent post, since I live and work in ole Mexico, I would like to clear up a point, getting permission for a firearm in Mexico is comparable to winning a lottery jackpot, practicaly none existant. As for a foreigner, forget it.

    When we wee under siege by Bandits up at the mine between Sinaloa and Durango, they refused to send up, or allow us any firearms, so I had to resort to torvex, (Amonium Nitrate) home made grenades. It worked . Still here.

    Don Jose de La Mancha


  2. #122
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I carry a XD40sc about half the time and a S&W 442 about half the time. I'm not more inclined to one or the other generally, just depends on what I'm wearing and where I'm going. I don't care about other people's opinion and won't change because of them. I also don't know why anyone cares that other people choose to carry a 5 shot revolver. It's no skin off anyone's nose either way, so who really cares. I'm just curious in ACTUAL 1st hand experience rather than theories or opinions.

    Now that we are 97 posts deep, I'll be the first to give a 1st hand account. I was involved in a Home Defense shooting when I was 15 years old. I had a rifle with 13 rounds in it when 2 drunk men put a baseball bat through my bedroom window after vandalizing a car in our driveway. The first one was head and shoulders inside my bedroom when I pumped two 22lr rounds into the wall just below the window (with my trusty Remington Fieldmaster pump 22 my dad gave me...that I kept loaded in my bedroom at all times). He backed out and the two of them scrambled and fell off the porch and staggered off through the yard. I followed up with 3 shots in the dirt behind them as they left the yard. None of the rounds fired were intended to hit them, but I would have had no problem hitting them if he had continued to enter. The police were called, they were caught, and that was that.

    So, being the first one to actually post a 1st hand encounter, I shot 5 times and had 13 rounds at my immediate disposal. Take from it what you will. 2 grown men (1 armed with a baseball bat) vs. one 15 year old boy in his whitey tidies with a pump 22 rifle.


    PS. As I sit here and write this, I have my XD40sc IWB at 3 oclock position with two mags in my left pocket. 28 rounds total...but I just got home from a mall in Tampa. Yesterday I was on the beach all day in my swim trunks, I had my 442 in my front pocket. I can't do that with my XD.
    Ok BugDude, you posted yours so I'll throw mine in there. Mine was with a shotty though so I figured it didn't count for the thread as it's not really a carry weapon. With a whole lot of details left out here, here goes...

    Age, 16. Dress, also tighty whiteys. Time, can't remember but it was very late at night after sleeping for a while. Maybe 1-3 am. Guy was breaking into my brothers' window with a screwdriver or something similar to pry. Heard the noise, looked down the hall and saw the silhouette. With all of the lights still out and being very quiet, I grabbed my 20 ga. Mossy 500 from my closet and loaded it up with 2 birdshot shells with none chambered. Knowing there would be a pattern spread and both of my brothers sleeping in that room, I quickly but quietly made my way to their room where the guy was still working the window. I was about 3.5 to 4 yards from his cute little head and he still didn't know I was there. I lifted the shotty up, aimed it at him with one hand, flipped the light on with the other, pumped a shell in and set the bead right between his eyes, took the safety off and just had enough time to put my finger on the trigger when he bailed. (happened very fast) I could have shot from the dark and he would have never seen it coming. By turning on the light, it gave him the choice of either running or committing suicide. He's lucky, my finger was on the trigger.

    So if we're counting that, (probably not for the subject) then less than 5 rounds were needed in my SD / HD. And thankfully, 0 was needed. Oh, and for those who don't think that birdshot would work? At my distance of around 4 yards, 28" bbl. and full choke 20 ga. I think the wadding alone would have knocked the guy out. I guarantee that the threat would have been stopped and he would have needed some assistance with life support at the very least. Although in most cases, that choice for HD isn't recommended. There, I cleared that up before the thread got derailed.
    BugDude likes this.
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  3. #123
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    HI mpg, a factor not considered is that the BG is still free to go for another victim later, and be possibly better prepared the next time. Full of if's, but I would do exactly as you did under those circumstances.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

  4. #124
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    Bugdude - interesting question and one I have thought about and previously posted on. This would have made a good poll thread. We could have found out that most here have never used their weapon; that of those who have, most did not have to shoot; that most who had to shoot got it done in 5 or less. But we would find an unlucky few who needed more.

    I don't hope to ever need my weapon, but given that I could need it, and might possibly need more than 5 rounds, I carry (generally) a 10+1 weapon of a service caliber. I don't think thame caliber is all that important given a service caliber, but the number of projectiles on hand without a reload could be. Given that carrying more rounds is as easy as fewer in a J frame, I carry more rounds. Still love my J frames.
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  5. #125
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    Well, BugDude's original question intrigued me & I had the time, so I've sat here & read every post. Not sure what that says about my sanity :-)

    Lots of good stories & thoughtful comments, but few answering his question (including this one, I must admit). Also, lots of people who can't pass up the chance to have an emotional argument instead of a fun and/or informative discussion. Kind of a shooters' version of the old Hot Stove Leagues where old geezers sat around and replayed past baseball seasons and boasted about their team's chances this year.

    As for me, I work in an inner-city school and would gladly have co-ax and ring-mounted M240's on my truck, but they won't let me. If I could carry here, it would be hi-cap and spare mags. Since I basically carry only up in the small country town where I live, I'm comfortable with 1-2 J frames. Many years ago in Houston, the threat became nighttime home invasion by 3-4 guys, so I upped my HD firepower from a revolver to M92 and AR-15.

    Yes, to the extent that military developments offer any parallel, higher firepower leads to more shots fired in general. I wasn't in Vietnam, but anyone there 1965-66 who experienced the transition from M-14 to M-16 saw that infantry engagement techniques quickly changed to use the capabilities of the new weapon. If I were a LEO covering my partner's maneuver with a revolver, I probably would shoot fewer rounds than I would if I had a hi-cap with spare mags.

    In summary, I have absolutely no direct input to BugDude's interesting initial question, but like he & others have noted, we all make decisions based on perceived threat. Even the SP with the M-16 carried only 150 rounds, whereas guys expecting heavy contact often carry 600 or more, and they're praying they don't run out of ammo.

    Everybody assesses his own threat, which is NOT static, and hopefully we'll all continue to guess correctly.

  6. #126
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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  7. #127
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    G'morning Scott: in response I would suggest that your friend invest in a better shot placement training.
    Yeah, whatever. Easy to say, but does it really mean anything?

    His incident typifies many real gunfights. It will be a lot different than shooting at a stationary target on the range.

    Night time
    Bad weather
    Less than 10 feet
    Both parties moving (around vehicles)

    Would 'better shot placement training' have helped you in the same situation?

  8. #128
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I really don't know what the fuss is about.

    Some of us have to dress in such a way that discretion is called for, for work and/or social reasons. Others simply choose (gasp!) not to lug a large and heavy sidearm around. Still others have medical issues that preclude carrying such a weight on their person.

    Whatever the reason, small guns with lower capacities aren't going anywhere (Bud's all time sales leader is the LCP).

    Seems to me that the easiest way to have both light weight, small, easy to conceal sidearms that are reasonably effective - AND enough capacity - is to simply...wait for it...carry TWO of them. I've found it MUCH easier (and more comfortable) to carry two smaller guns than one large one. And having a second gun has many advantages that have been discussed at length - no need to rehash that here.

    As far as 5 shots not being enough for a civilian - it has happened (I already posted the account I read about) but is a very rare event. You can read the study posted as a sticky on the Ammunition sub-forum for data on number of rounds fired, etc.

    Pass the butter please...

    BugDude likes this.
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  9. #129
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    FWIW, carrying a snub doesn't automatically mean you are carrying less total rounds.
    10+ in the gun before having to reload seems to be more than a small advantage IMO.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post


    Pass the butter please...

    With over 120 posts, I'm thinking the show is about over.
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  11. #131
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    10+ in the gun before having to reload seems to be more than a small advantage IMO.
    I'm sure it is if you need them. If you only need 5 shots, those other 5 in the mag were of no significance to the situation. Unused ammo was never in the fight. My point was don't assume a person carrying a snub revolver is carrying only 5 rounds. I carry a minimum of 20 rounds total when I carry a snub.

    Also, a 10 round gun in the truck does you no good when you're wearing your swimming trunks on the beach all day. I can put my 442 in one of my pockets in a ziploc freezer bag and 3 speed loaders in another in my left pocket and swim in the ocean all day. Imagine that, 20 rounds of ammo while I'm chin deep in the Gulf of Mexico...with a snubnose revolver of all things. Who would have ever thunk it???
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  12. #132
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    Who would have ever thunk it???
    Certainley not I.

    One thing is for certain though...you'd better keep those britches on and hope that they dont slip down because everyone in sight would be traumatized for life.
    BugDude and BkCo1 like this.
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  13. #133
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    Imagine that, 20 rounds of ammo while I'm chin deep in the Gulf of Mexico...with a snubnose revolver of all things
    Lemme guess...you're scared of sharks right?

    pgrass101 likes this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #134
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    The sharks didn't bother me near as much as the other people on the beach...it was a rough looking crowd. I'll not be going back to that particular beach.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  15. #135
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