My 'two' favorite SD guns...

This is a discussion on My 'two' favorite SD guns... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First, a disclaimer - I don't want anyone to take this to mean these are the best guns for everyone. Let us realize there are ...

Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree7Likes
  • 2 Post By Tangle
  • 2 Post By Brad426
  • 1 Post By glockman10mm
  • 2 Post By Tangle

Thread: My 'two' favorite SD guns...

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714

    My 'two' favorite SD guns...

    First, a disclaimer - I don't want anyone to take this to mean these are the best guns for everyone. Let us realize there are many equal quality handguns on the market today, any one of which would serve well for SD. These are just my favorites based on a lot of shooting.

    One, not number one, just starting somewhere, is a Glock 17 gen 4. I have three of these and the G17's cousin, a G34 gen 4. Glock went through one of the most problematic introductions with the gen 4 models that I have ever seen from any gun manufacturer. I had no doubt at any point that Glock would resolve these issues and they did. I have five gen 4s and have yet to have the first problem with any of them.

    I seem to have a natural propensity for shooting Glocks. I shoot them well, and always have. The 'block' grip of the Glock, fits my hand like a glove; I have no issues with the ergonomics of the Glock grip. Of course some do.

    I have always liked the Glock sights - not that they are plastic, but that the front is a big white dot and the rear is a white outline of a box. So I put the ball in the box, align the ball with the target, and pull the trigger without disturbing the gun.

    However not long ago a good friend and trainer, D.R. Middlebrooks, owner/operator/trainer for Tactical Shooting Academy sent me some Pro Sights for evaluation. I'm going to do a thread about the sights, so I'll just post the results here, but here is a multipurpose pic of the Pro Sights. In this pic I have applied Glo-On luminescent paint to the rear white line. The front sight is a green FO sight. Notice there is quite a bit of light as you can see details of the background and yet the Glo-On is really pronounced and the FO front sight just doesn't show up. Be aware, the Glo-On was just charged when the pic was made, still...



    The targets below, are my standard 'box of 50' slow fire and rapid fire eval drills. I'm just showing the slow fire.

    In case some aren't familiar with my box of 50 drill, it's this: I divide a box of 50 rounds up into three groups: a group of 20, and two groups of 15. The group of 20 is for slow fire and my standard drill is 4 shots at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 yds once in that order and if I shoot a second round and I always do, I shoot it in the reverse order.

    The two groups of 15 is for rapid fire. I shoot at a three inch orange dot at 5 yards, as fast as I can hit it. I shoot one 15 group five shots at a time, hence three volleys. I do the same thing on another orange dot and that consumes a box of 50 and provides 20 slow fire rounds for accuracy and 30 for speed (and accuracy). It's a good ratio; I find I need more work on rapid fire so this provides it.

    Anyway here's the 3 rd and 4 th targets I shot with the Pro Sights; the first two targets were shot on another day and were a quick and brief acclimation shoot. Remember, what you are seeing is four shots at 5 ranges:



    I'm of the firm belief that one time doesn't mean anything. If you can't repeat it, it isn't working. So here's the corroborative second drill and target results:



    You notice that outlier? I'm not real sure I shot that. I can't say I didn't pull one, but I rarely pull a shot that badly when I just shot 19 shots in one little group. I've had guys in adjacent lanes hit my target before and I know for a fact they did. There was a not-so-good shooter in the lane to the left of me. I usually blame a miss like that on bad ammo, but I figure you're tired of hearing that one.

    Nonetheless, one outlier, even if I shot it, is a human error. The 19 shots are indicative of what can be done with the Pro Sights and a Glock 17. Stock 'dot' connector BTW, in fact, other than the sights, it's box stock. This performance exceeds what I have done in the past with stock Glock sights.

    FWIW, these two targets are significantly better than what I did with a G17 gen 4 with a Ghost Rocket connector, AND, $240 Burris FastFire III RDS.

    The second, not in second place, but simply the other gun that's my favorite is the why of the 'two' in quotes. But before I go on, another disclaimer: This is for me.

    The second favorite is a Kimber 1911, I just don't know which one. I've taken apart, I mean to the last screw, pin, etc. a number of 1911s. I have yet to see another brand match the quality and fit of a Kimber. I could tell you some stories, but that's not what this is about. I would add that I have not had an opportunity to take a Colt apart. But, until I can, I have full respect and confidence in a Colt 1911 - I just don't have any experience with them and can't say how they are fitted and finished. They won't beat a Kimber on fit and finish I can tell you that, a Colt may be every bit as good, but after building a number of 1911s, and inspecting the internals of Kimbers, there's just nothing left undone in the fit and finish of a Kimber.

    I now have 50 rounds shy of 4000 rounds through my Kimbers. Other than one Kimber shooting high or low, don't remember which, and one failure to feed because I just had to try a box 185 gn round during the first 200 rounds, which is contrary to Kimbers break-in instructions, and I only had one FTF out of that entire box, I have yet to have a problem. Kimber fixed the sight problem at zero cost to me.

    Because of the drills I shoot, the slide locks back 11 times per box of 50. By the time I've shot 1000 rounds, the slide will have locked back 220 times. Compared to the practice of loading up 8 rounds and firing to empty, the slide would lock back only 125 times or so. What I'm saying is my MIM slide lock absorbs a lot more punishment than most, and I've yet to have one break OR fail to lock.

    So there you have it, my favorite 'two' guns are a Glock 17 gen 4 and a Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP - I just don't know which of my 1911 Kimbers is my favorite, but I think it's gonna be the Gold Combat, which I don't even have yet. If I find one, I'll probably trade two of my Kimbers to get it. One will likely be TLE/RL because it would be redundant to the Gold Combat, and probably the other would be the Pro Carry because it doesn't have front strap checkering.

    Then again, a couple of Sigs would accomplish about the same thing....hmmm..... Now if I can just find a Gold Combat I can trade for. I'm pulling some strings in that direction.
    glockman10mm and OD* like this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,095
    Nice write up and good shooting! Seems amazing that when you get the right combination how much it can help. I am sure you weren't a bad shot when you used the Burris fastfire III RDS. Glad you got it down!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,812
    Nice shooting, for sure. I think that outlier was me... sorry.
    Triton and stancehold like this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,436
    Nice shooting
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,499

    Thumbs up

    That is some amazing shooting. And I really do appreciate your recent posts on Kimber.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,859
    I guess we are thinking the same way. I prefer the G19 and the Colt 1911 as my go to rigs. Heres 2 different groups of 50, one with the 1911, which is on the left, and the 50 shot group on the right is the G19 with TFO sights.



    I couldnt agree more with your choices.
    OD* likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NW, TN
    Posts
    744
    You have no idea of how you just hurt my feelings even more, today in particular. I sure hope the saying, "time cures all feelings" is the case, you see...

    My son is in the military stationed at Ft. Benning, GA. and he came to visit us for a couple of days and just left this A.M., and not alone. He took my pride and joy with him, my Kimber Pro Raptor .45. I didn't even get to have a wake, a viewing or allowed to say a word over it. As far as my girls, I'm down to just my Ultra CDP II, .45.

    He wanted it so bad he traded me his almost new Rock River AR-15 with all the bells, whistles and trinkets possible. Now this is the really sad part that brought a tear to my eye, tear hell, I bawled. I'm running a little short of .45 ammo so he runs to Wally World yesterday to buy some, as we are going up to the gun club to show him how well it shoots. I'm going to bring my brand new Ruger SP101, .357 and try it out shooting some .38+P.

    So, he gets back from Wally World, we load up our gear and head to the range. Get there and set up our targets and start loading. I look over at him to see how he is doing, and my heart sank to my gonads He loading the Wilson 47D'S with "TULAMMO". I explained to him that I didn't ever force you to eat liver, spinach and road kill when you were growing up, so never force my fourth kid to eat that crap, EVER.

    Since he only had that crap to shoot, he ran a box of fifty through it. Every shot, it was like throwing a blanket over a smoldering fire and pulling it off (smoke signal). After eight rounds during slide lock I showed him the inside of the chamber. Eight rounds and completely filthy!

    Oh, and my SP101? Man, I've never shot so bad in my life. At seven yards I was lucky to put every round in a 8 inch size pie plate? I did get a little better the more I shot though. One thing is for sure, I'm glad I grabbed a box of 38's and not full load .357's, as that puppy has an attitude.
    I think, therefore I am...

    <the Menace>

  9. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis1209 View Post
    You have no idea of how you just hurt my feelings even more, today in particular. I sure hope the saying, "time cures all feelings" is the case, you see...

    My son is in the military stationed at Ft. Benning, GA. and he came to visit us for a couple of days and just left this A.M., and not alone. He took my pride and joy with him, my Kimber Pro Raptor .45. I didn't even get to have a wake, a viewing or allowed to say a word over it. As far as my girls, I'm down to just my Ultra CDP II, .45.

    He wanted it so bad he traded me his almost new Rock River AR-15 with all the bells, whistles and trinkets possible. Now this is the really sad part that brought a tear to my eye, tear hell, I bawled. I'm running a little short of .45 ammo so he runs to Wally World yesterday to buy some, as we are going up to the gun club to show him how well it shoots. I'm going to bring my brand new Ruger SP101, .357 and try it out shooting some .38+P.

    So, he gets back from Wally World, we load up our gear and head to the range. Get there and set up our targets and start loading. I look over at him to see how he is doing, and my heart sank to my gonads He loading the Wilson 47D'S with "TULAMMO". I explained to him that I didn't ever force you to eat liver, spinach and road kill when you were growing up, so never force my fourth kid to eat that crap, EVER.

    Since he only had that crap to shoot, he ran a box of fifty through it. Every shot, it was like throwing a blanket over a smoldering fire and pulling it off (smoke signal). After eight rounds during slide lock I showed him the inside of the chamber. Eight rounds and completely filthy!

    Oh, and my SP101? Man, I've never shot so bad in my life. At seven yards I was lucky to put every round in a 8 inch size pie plate? I did get a little better the more I shot though. One thing is for sure, I'm glad I grabbed a box of 38's and not full load .357's, as that puppy has an attitude.
    That's is sad; now I'm crying! "...my fourth kid...", lol, that's about it though isn't it. I think the laws ought to be changed so that we can use deadly force to protect our dogs and guns. Not that you'd want to in this case...wasn't implying that.

    But you've still got your Ultra CDP, that's no small thing.....hmmm, wait, that is a small thing, well compared to the Raptor Pro.

    Boy those Pros are such a good size.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  10. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I guess we are thinking the same way. I prefer the G19 and the Colt 1911 as my go to rigs. Heres 2 different groups of 50, one with the 1911, which is on the left, and the 50 shot group on the right is the G19 with TFO sights.



    I couldnt agree more with your choices.
    Whoa - great shooting. You're getting ripped off on your targets though; you pay for the whole thing and only use such a small part of it.
    BurgerBoy and WHEC724 like this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  11. #10
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    That is some amazing shooting. And I really do appreciate your recent posts on Kimber.
    Thanks, there's another Kimber post coming - the Kimber Gold Combat. I don't have it yet, they are very hard to find, but I'm working on some leads.

    Hmmm, I need to do a thread on the Kimber Pro Carry. Have I done that one?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I guess we are thinking the same way. I prefer the G19 and the Colt 1911 as my go to rigs. Heres 2 different groups of 50, one with the 1911, which is on the left, and the 50 shot group on the right is the G19 with TFO sights.



    I couldnt agree more with your choices.
    Okay, now I'm back to suspecting that your an immortal again. That was off-hand, wasn't it? I mean, I love my G19 and I carry it more than anything else. I draw and hit accurately quicker with it, than anything else. But never, even on my best day of careful shooting, could I lay down a group like that with it. I always figured that it just couldn't do that sort of accuracy, as I've shot from a bench-rest with it as well trying to determine how consistent it is.

    Once again, I'm reminded that the gun is far more accurate than I am. 'Back to the range for me before I post anything. Although I think that the bar set is a little too high...
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member
    Array miller_man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nashville, Tn
    Posts
    1,517
    This is exactly why I want to get out to the range with you, Tangle! Nice shooting.

    I've deff decided I want a simular sight picture for my EDC. That looks nice.

    I haven't been to the range since last time I saw you, so I know that stray wasn't mine! lol.
    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

    G19 AIWB

  14. #13
    OD*
    OD* is online now
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,009
    Excellent write-up Tangle, and some great shooting.

    My two SD favorites now are the 1911 (preferably Colt and Les Baer) and I really hate to say it , the 4th Generation Glocks 17 and 19.

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

best sd carry gun
,
best sights for glo
,
guns what does sd mean
,
here's my two favorite
,
kimber combat carry 1st generation 1995
,
kimber gold combat 1st generation
,

kimber gold combat first gen

,
kimber gold combat gen 1 for sale
,
my kimber shoots left
,

my two favorite guns

,

tfo sight groups

,
what does sd mean on firearms
Click on a term to search for related topics.