My top 5 for reliability, value, CCW, service and in order:
Beretta/ Sig Sauer tied
My top five guns that I personally carry and in order are:
Springfield XDM 3.8 compact
All that money invested and its still just a 9mm :( what a waste LOL. j/k
Originally Posted by shipwreck
Originally Posted by Wiggity
I guess I did a poor job of writing #3. What I meant to say was that 1911 parts require replacement sooner than all other modern pistols I am aware of.
A couple questions if you don't mind as I do not understand why you replied the way you did.
1. I gave this thread my "subjective" reasons, why do you "disagree" with my personal decision to move away from 1911's?
2. How is capacity not important? Especially in a defensive pistol?
3. Why carry such an out-dated design when there are many other pistols out there that are more reliable, require less maintenance, hold more ammo, can take more of a beating, and simply accomplish the same job better?
:rolleyes: What about a happy medium solution? The STI Tactical 4.0 (2011 pistol).
1. I'm not disagreeing with your personal decision to move away from the 1911. That's your business. I emphatically disagree with the statement that 1911 parts require replacement sooner than all other pistols. I also disagree that reliable 1911 pistols cannot be had for well under $2000. The claims you make need to be disputed here so folks aren't led astray.
In fact, all the reliable 1911 pistols I've ever seen cost way under $2000. I don't even run in the circles where the high-dollar custom 1911 guns may be found. This is based on personal observation of several 1911 type pistols over the years.
2. High capacity is more important to some folks than it is to others. It is not flawed thinking to be content with the capacity of the 1911. One may positively influence a situation with 7+1 rounds. I generally carry a 6-shot revolver and so do many others here. It's personal self-defense and not the Normandy Invasion.
3. Why would the 1911 be considered outdated? Is it because it's fabricated out of steel rather than cheap molded plastic and non-ferrous alloys? Perhaps it's because its ammunition capacity doesn't encourage "spray & pray?" Admiring less maintenance could be seen as embracing neglect. The 1911 guns will take more of a beating than the enthused forum member is going to dish out. No "new crop" automatic can accomplish the job of flinging projectiles any better than a 1911 can for one can't get any better than complete dependablity.
Both the 1911 and the latest pistol designs utilize self-contained metallic cartridges, a design technology that is 150 years old now. All are repeating pistol designs with different ammunition capacities. There is much less difference between designs than we like to think. A full-sized 1911 is about the only automatic I'm willing to carry and it's because I prefer its features and reliability over any other popular design. Everyone doesn't assume "new" is superior.
This is one person's observation, offered as food for thought.
Letting people know that I don't understand why one would carry a gun that requires more maintenance, holds less ammo, and can't take as much abuse is not leading them astray.
We clearly have different experiences with, and opinions on, this firearm and that is okay.
However, don't tell me I'm "leading people astray" when I am simply sharing my experience.
These are my choices.
"However, don't tell me I'm "leading people astray" when I am simply sharing my experience."
Broad-brush, inaccurate generalizations can conceal the truth and belie the experiences of a number of folks posting here.
My $900 Colt 1911 is 100% stock, dead nuts accurate, and has shown no sign of wearing out. Has never batted an eye in the reliability department either. I'd rate it as high as my Glock in ability to take abuse. Spending more than $2000 on one just seems silly to me unless you're looking for some eye candy.
The only thing I don't like about the 1911 design is how relatively complex it is to disassemble. It's not difficult to do, but it's something of a multistep process and I always have to get the manual out despite having done it dozens of times.
It is true that they hold less ammo though.
Back to the original point, my rankings in no particular order would be:
Smith and Wesson
Other favorites that don't quite make the top 5 but I still think are top notch include Bersa, CZ, Walther, and Browning.
I'm my experience, everything I said is true.
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray
How does my experience with 1911's conceal the truth about them and belie your experience?
Sense, this makes none.
We may be a minority of 2, but my thoughts about the 1911 are much the same as yours. It was a brilliant design in it's time, but nostalgia aside, there are, in my opinion, which is experssed when I spend my money, a lot better values for concealed carry defensive pistols than the 1911 design, especially for concealed carry in smaller sizes.
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray
Browning was a genius, but Gaston Glock took advantage of modern materials and production methods to pioneer a new style of handgun that is less expensive, less fussy about ammo, requires less maintainance, is more tolerant of dust, dirt, and grime, and with significantly more ammo capacity than the 1911 design. Gaston's Glock was the beginning of a whole new era in handguns. One could argue the Glock concept has been improved by others, but it is still the gold standard for the modern combat and defense pistol in essentially any popular cartridge.
I'd much rather buy a gun for half the price that I trust to carry right out of the box than something that costs nearly twice to six or seven as much and needs 200 to 500 rounds of breakin. I've seen an Ed Brown custom 1911 bob tail which cost more than all my handguns added up that was a picky eater and required multiple trips back to the factory to make it almost function as well as my $550.00 Glock did on day 1.
All three of my Glocks were packable on day 1. I put a patch through the bore and 50 rounds thorugh them to make friends with them, but not because they needed any breakin - all three were flawless from the first time they came out of the case. So was my M&P Shield, though I sold it to buy a Glock 36. So was my good friends XD. I will probably buy an XDs in about a year when I'm sure they have all the bugs worked out - right now I wouldn't trust it out of the box but I might in a year. Time will tell.
The closest thing to a 1911 I have is my SIG P238. Fantastic little pocket gun. My wife has one too - the reason I have my own is she got cranky when I wanted to borrow hers.
If a person want's a good reliable concealed carry weapon that can be counted on to work brand new right out of the box with any off the shelf ammo of the proper caliber they would be well advised to buy something other than a 1911.
I'm glad no one told my Colt that. The only "break-in" it needed was apparently accomplished after I racked the slide for the first time.
Originally Posted by Fitch
Congrats! You got a good one. Now go shoot 5k rounds through it without cleaning or lubing and see what happens. Then clean it, if that doesn't solve your problem, replace some springs, then you will have a reliable pistol again.
Originally Posted by 380ACP
Fitch, glad you realize there are cheaper pistols that accomplish the same thing better in several different levels. I am not a glock fan, but they are solid pistols. I like my HK's!
Poor advice to shoot five thousand rounds through a handgun without cleaning or lubricating. It proves not a thing except that the owner is negligent and foolhardy. We'll start a 1911 bashing thread and leave this one for top 5 manufacturers.
I'd rank them differently for specific uses but for me (in order) based upon my experiences and my uses...
4. Les Baer
IF it were six I'd add Sig Sauer.