Doublestack envy

This is a discussion on Doublestack envy within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is long, so hopefully some will hang with me... I bought my Walther PPS 9mm in February as my first carry gun, and have ...

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Thread: Doublestack envy

  1. #1
    Member Array stimpee's Avatar
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    Doublestack envy

    This is long, so hopefully some will hang with me...

    I bought my Walther PPS 9mm in February as my first carry gun, and have been quite thrilled with its performance, accuracy, and concealability. As of yesterday I have 700 rounds through it and have had two feed failures/failure to return to battery, both in the hands of someone else (one with my 13YO son and one with my wife). Both fixed with a smack on the back of the slide.

    Somewhat aside: Yesterday we took my wife's new .380 bodyguard to the range to try it out. It is tiny, but actually astounded me with its accuracy. We put 100rds of winchester white box thru it without a hiccup. Certainly not the most comfortable firearm to shoot, but it worked VERY well. The trigger pull is LONG and pretty heavy at the end, but very smooth and predictable (think heavy double action revolver). I even shot it with the built in laser a bit, and at 7yards I was able to make a ragged hole inside the 10 ring. I was astounded at the accuracy of the little beast with its 2.75" barrel.

    That experience (with the laser) demonstrated to me how my eyesight is probably the limiting factor right now in my handgun shooting. I just cannot get a clear view of the front sight, no matter how hard I try. Probably a topic for another thread for discussion.

    With the white dot sights on my PPS, I am still able to empty two magazines reasonably quickly at 7 yards and make a ragged hole with maybe 1-2 in the 8 ring on an 8" target. Amazing accuracy and stil remains extremely pleasant to shoot. I was amazed at how "light" my PPS trigger felt after shooting the BG.

    The crux of the "problem": However, my PPS doubles as my carry gun as well as my home defense gun. We have had numerous home invasions about an hour or so north of where we live recently where there have been 3-5 perpetrators forcibly entering homes. The PPS, with 7 or 8 +1, concerns me with its adequacy for the home defense role. Granted, in that situation you have a serious problem as it is, but I would obviously like to "stack" the odds in my favor (haha, a pun).

    I keep thinking about a double stack 9mm. I am interested in something for home defense, but would also like to be able to carry it comfortably. I am still somewhat in the newb phase where I worry about printing a lot, but in reality I probably have nothing to worry about. I use an Old Faithful hybrid at roughly 330 with a Beltman bullhide belt and am very happy with the combo.

    I am mentally considering the PPQ, P99, Glock 19/26, and S&W M&P9c (maybe even the Ruger SR9C) but I am not sure what to do! One part of me says buy a bigger gun, learn to shoot it, buy a holster, and have options. Another part of me just says stick with the PPS, practice more, and worry less. I would love to have a firearm that functions identically to my PPS, but there is really nothing that does. The PPQ is close but the trigger is noticably lighter, and not sure I am 100% comfortable for carry, particularly since I am considering trying appendix carry.

    I know I will probably get 100 opinions on this, but looking for input/insight. FWIW I am about 5'6" tall (or not tall!) and in the upper 160's for weight. I am still lucky enough that my chest and shoulders are bigger/broader than my belly and waist. Appreciate any input and opinions!


    Thanks,
    Steve

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    A handgun is to fight your way to your long gun.

    Do you have a shotgun at home?

    If not, get one. The PPS will serve just fine until you can get to the shotgun. Especially if you keep it on you, even at home.

    If your wife cannot handle a 12 gauge, even with light recoiling loads, do not feel bad about getting a 20 gauge. Another option is a rifle, like a .223 which has fairly mild recoil. Whatever you choose, get a long gun if you do not already.
    Rollo likes this.
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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    If you want a double stack, then by all means get one.

    But regardless of your HD weapon, you still need to know how to run it.

    Have you taken a professional course? If not, then after taking one will help shape your ideas on what you want your HD to be.

    FWIW, an AR is a popular choice for HD, I would give it serious consideration given the invasions that you mention.



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    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    M&P9c...there, discussion over! HA!

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    Member Array stimpee's Avatar
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    The purchase of a shotgun has been/is on the high end of the priority list. I am guessing a good home defense 12ga with a relatively short barrel and 6-8 shot magazine capacity along with a few shells in a carrier on the stock is probably a good start?

    Purchase of a 5.56/.223 AR clone is also on the list. It is just a matter of what is most important. The main issue I have with a long gun is my home situation. I have 4 children, and we have a split floor plan single level home. So we are on one side of the living space and the kids on the other. If I suspect someone has entered our house uninvited, I cannot just "hole up" in my safe room. I do have two decent sized canine alarm systems who tend to stay near the kids, but in the end I would have to go looking for someone if I suspected entry or attempted entry into the house.

    While the whole side of training and tactics for home clearing is something I have yet to truly understand and embrace, the thought of attempting to do so with a long gun is a bit overwhelming to me. However that said, a 12ga with the appropriate ammo or a .223 carbine is likely a better choice if worried about overpenetration in the home. A very complex situation.

    I don't suspect my wife would have an issue with handling the 12ga. She shoots just about anything you can put in her hand at least as well as I do, and doesn't seem to be bothered by recoil.

    I am getting very close to setting up my older son with the Ruger GP100 (which he is very comfortable shooting) in a quick access safe and an appropriate way to alert the kids to "hole up" on their side of the house, with a "shoot anything that moves unless I give you the secret word" instruction. That would allow everyone to stay put. But I am not quite there yet. Of course, even in Florida that is probably illegal since he is a minor...

    My wife and I have taken a basic shooting/handling class, but I have yet to engage in a serious defensive class. I am planning to do so over the winter or next spring, but if I use my PPS I will need to buy some magazines for it which will probably cost almnost as much as a new gun! In any case, probably money better spent than buying a double stack, and I know it. If money were no object, then I would just do "all of the above", but I don't have that luxury. Remember, 4 kids, and also single income family!

    Keep the ideas coming though!

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    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    Seems to me you have it covered already with your wife shooting the BG380 6+1 rounds and you with your PPS depending on the magazine 6+1, 7+1, 8+1 rounds. More than enough to cover 99% of home invasions. Heck some people only have or use a revolver for their home defense gun which can have the same or less rounds than what you have now. My suggestion is to keep what you have and if you need to purchase anything, would be to get a shotgun. God Bless

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    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    Remington 870....nothing says you picked the wrong house like the sound of a 12ga when you rack the slide.

    and a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag would be a nice home invasion backup gun.
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

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    My Glock 17 and 19 serve all self/home defense needs. One, the other or both are right here, right now all the time.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    I debated long and hard between the M&P and the XDSc. Loved them both, ended up with the XD basically on a coin toss. Still would like to get an M&P when there's some extra money laying around.

    We don't have a long gun. Yeah I know we probably should but... I have 13 rounds on my hip plus the extend mag ready to go nearby. In all honesty if an invasion occurred for me, while I know I should be going for a long gun, I'd be getting the kid's to safety and that'd be a different direction then my room to a safe.

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    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    In the dark, fight or flight in full swing, heart pounding a massive amount of adrenalin through your body...unless you're a trained operator (LEO, military) you probably won't have a steady hand to be accurate with a pistol. That's where a pump shotgun is at its best. No aiming required, just point in the general direction & squeeze. Spackle is cheap. The sound of a pump racking is one of the scariest sounds you can hear in the dark & tends to make people reconsider their course of action. Look at a Mossberg 500 riot or any number of short pump shotguns. Good luck.
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    You can always over-think a lot of things. Sometimes you can get overwhelmed with priorities and decisions, and of course the "list" may change often. Appendix carry is a very good option for many reasons IMO. Much as I like helping others decide what they should do.....I often pose myself a question as to whether or not they actually need my help at all or if I feel everyone should do as I do. Advice is fine, but run it all through your colander first or you'll have wet noodles.
    Stick with what works for you know,and even advance your knowledge with those same tools. Making a change may be a positive thing, but you'll be taking a step backward short term for a long term gain. "Double stack envy"? Envy is one of the 7 deadly sins. Availability and effectively deploying your weapon for self defense is where your confidence lies....not in knowing your pistol has a double stack magazine. Envy will also affect you in real time in the real word even if you don't believe in the religious aspect of sin and the afterlife. After all....we carry to avoid the afterlife due to unnatural circumstances.
    Think on it some more before you seek change.

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    Member Array BadHabit's Avatar
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    You are very correct in your threat identification. You are very likely to be confronted by multiple aggressors- especially in a home invasion scenario.

    In your decision making process you need to ask yourself what firearm are you most likely to have immediately available when the time comes? Will you have a long gun on you when you are on your back porch, cutting the grass, or working on your vehicle?

    Your current choice is certainly not lacking as a PPS is a very functional tool. With time and situational analysis, you are likely to have many revisions in your "best" choice. Remember- the "best" choice is what you have available when trouble comes knocking.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Right now I am sitting in my home office wearing a 5 shot snub and one speed loader. There is another speed loader in the desk drawer next to me. I have a extra speed loader in the center console on my car. I have two extra speed loaders in my EDC backpack. When I am at home the point of the gun I am wearing is only to get me to more firepower. That may be my Remington 870 or it may be my AR-15. The only reason I would engage someone with a handgun when I wasn't at home is because it was the only thing I had. Inside my home my option are expanded.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGunny View Post
    In the dark, fight or flight in full swing, heart pounding a massive amount of adrenalin through your body...unless you're a trained operator (LEO, military) you probably won't have a steady hand to be accurate with a pistol. That's where a pump shotgun is at its best. No aiming required, just point in the general direction & squeeze. Spackle is cheap. The sound of a pump racking is one of the scariest sounds you can hear in the dark & tends to make people reconsider their course of action. Look at a Mossberg 500 riot or any number of short pump shotguns. Good luck.
    Completely incorrect. At typical inside the home distances, a shotgun most absolutely needs to be aimed. The spread will only be a few inches, at most.

    OP - For moving inside the home to get to your kids, I do personally recommend a handgun. It leaves a hand free for other things, like grabbing the kids on the other end of the house, using the phone, light switches, doors, etc.

    I recommend you and your wife practice reacting to this sceanrio together. You will need to move from your side of the home to where the kids are. The benefit is there are two of you, so you can cover each other. The risk is that you need to work together, lest one of you accidentally shoot the other. For this reason, I do NOT recommend you arm your oldest child - would be very bad for him to shoot one of you in a panic as you charge into his room.

    Given that you will be working together (assuming you are both at home together at night time) then your current handguns (together) are more than adequate for anything other than a professional SEAL team assault. However, if you are concerned about daylight home invasion (assuming you are at work), or one of you being away, then I can see how you might want a double stack pistol.

    Your plan might be to move from your end of the house, to the other end where the kids are, and hole up there, making their room the safe room. In such a case, you could keep a long gun in that room, in a safe so the kids cannot get to it. Or, just use the handgun(s) you bring with you.

    I would recommend professional training, as clearing a structure as a team is a very difficult and dangerous operation, even for professionals. Even more so with children in the home. You will need to learn moving with a gun, team tactics, and using a light for positive target ID (especially with scared kids to deal with).

    Last point - if at all possible, I would recommend the kids move into rooms on the same side of the house as you. Makes things a whole lot easier.

    I hope this was somewhat helpful. Good luck, and stay safe.
    Rollo, BugDude and Toorop like this.
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    Member Array stimpee's Avatar
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    To add to this, the PPS is on my hip essentially at all times unless sleeping, showering or while in the building at work. So that is the most "readily available". The idea of using the pistol to "fight my way to the shotgun" is certainly worth consideration, and I know I would have spousal support for a shotgun purchase. I would have to keep it locked up in something that is readily accessible though, which is not quite as simple although I know there are some options....

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