9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9

This is a discussion on 9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by minimalbrat lol I was looking online and saw a real pretty one. Will have to see if I can find some place ...

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Thread: 9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimalbrat View Post
    lol I was looking online and saw a real pretty one. Will have to see if I can find some place to try one out
    Well, whichever one of us gets a chance to shoot it first will have to post about the experience. It is a sharp looking gun though. I was never impressed with the looks of the Kahr polymer pistols, but I like the look of the steel.
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    When your looking at pistols as heavy as a all metal kahrs why not also let her try a glock 19. Now I carry one of 2 kahrs I have and like them very much but for purse carry try a g19 too. Easier slide to operate and more controled to shoot with a better trigger.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    When your looking at pistols as heavy as a all metal kahrs why not also let her try a glock 19. Now I carry one of 2 kahrs I have and like them very much but for purse carry try a g19 too. Easier slide to operate and more controled to shoot with a better trigger.
    I'm looking at several different pistols, but am sticking to Kahr in this example just for comparison purposes. Also, steel frame pistols give the heavier inertia-building weight while still staying small enough for easy concealment. And, as a purse or pocket gun, the longer trigger pull of the Kahr over the Glock (both without manual safeties) is a bit reassuring to her, she likes the long DAO trigger of the LCR for that reason.

    But, the short answer is, yes I will have her shoot the Glocks in full and compact versions as well.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    If your wanting to compare a small MK and a full grip K also give her the option of the CW or P series and see the difference in weight but still have full grip. Atleast for me the recoil of the cw9 i have and our g17 to be very close to the same as far as getting timed shoots on target. Like shooting 7 shots in the chest of a target on a beeper, one may be faster than the other!!. The compact glock26 are kinda werd in that the grip still has that flair at the bottom but its more enhansed with the shortness and is not allways as good feeling as the g19 can be .

    Good luck

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I'm a bit of a recoil wimp, so perhaps this perspective will help.

    I've held and shot each of them, with decent amounts of rounds through each: the Kahr K9, MK9, PM9 (and the P380).

    If you've shot a variety of pistols and revolvers of varying sizes and weights, you basically have experienced most (if not all) of the driving factors of mitigating recoil.

    IMO the K9 is more friendly on the hands than the MK9, and that's quite a bit more friendly on the hands than the PM9. The K9's got a nice, wide surface where your hand wraps around it, the recoil force to be spread across a larger area, whereas the smaller, thinner guns (by comparison) focus that same 9mm right into the web and bone between the thumb and forefinger. Decent difference, just based on that. The added weight and length (over the PM9 really helps, too.

    As to whether you'll notice much difference between the K9 and MK9 ... WEight is nearly identical, but the K9's going to be longer (which changes the recoil snap/flip you'll feel), and the added grip width and length allows the hand to more-easily control and absorb the recoil. I've noticed a marked difference, much preferring the K9 to all the smaller ones, from a handling and recoil perspective.

    That said, being a bit of a recoil wimp myself, I think of all the ultra-lightweight mouseguns out there, that the Kahr PM9 is about the friendliest there is on the hands, recoil-wise. If you're prepared for the added weight (~10oz loaded) of the MK9 or K9 over the PM9, I think you'll find noticeably less recoil. Still, realize that all three of them are considered compact guns. None are going to be truly soft on the hands.

    If you're looking for something soft, or at least quite a bit softer on the hands, than the Kahr MK9 or K9, consider a Bersa Ultra Pro Compact 9mm, or a CZ 75 PCR, or CZ P-01. They'll be larger grips, but the larger overall format and weight dramatically helps in the area of recoil and ease of controlling the gun.

    In revolvers, too, you can take a decently weighty revolver (say, a Ruger SP-101) and put hefty, rubberized grips on it (check Pachmayr or Hogue) that'll dramatically change the feel of the recoil on the hand. Of course, any ~25oz revolver's going to be significantly easier on the hands than any ~14oz one. A longer bbl helps as well, such as an SP-101 in 3in versus the snubbie; a small difference, but noticeable. A larger-framed variant will feel "softer" on the hands, as you know, ie the Ruger GP-100 vs the SP-101, or the 4in variety vs the snubbie.

    Of all the pistols and revolvers I've shot with, say, a hot 9mm round (ie, DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore), about the easiest on my hands has been the CZ P-01. It's a larger frame, wider/fatter grip circumference (if a bit large), padded rubber grips that fit well in the hand, a great grip angle that allows for natural pointing (at least for me), and ~28oz unloaded. IMO, anything ~30oz on up, and anything wider than you'd prefer, is going to better handle the recoil load on the hands than any of the punier options. (Similar to the distinction between a 39oz 1911 5in Govt as compared to a chopped STI 1911 alloy variant. BIG difference in recoil.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I'm a bit of a recoil wimp, so perhaps this perspective will help.

    I've held and shot each of them, with decent amounts of rounds through each...
    Now that's the kind of feedback I was hoping for, thank you. I'll pass this along.

    Keep 'em coming :)
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    Now that's the kind of feedback I was hoping for, thank you. I'll pass this along.

    Keep 'em coming :)
    Nah. I'm done. Gads, wasn't that enough?! My fingers are cramped, anyway, from all those keys ...

    Hopefully that feedback helps. It's only my personal opinion, of course, but it's based on ones I've actually shot significant rounds through. I've shot each of those Kahrs and dozens of others, so (being a recoil wimp) I would think my basic comparisons would be something she could relate to. One person's experience.

    Hopefully she'll be able to find something that (a) fits her hand well and (b) is recoil friendly enough to be something she can use to train effectively. Gotta keep searching until one's found that fits that bill.

    One of the mid-sized revolvers might do, assuming ~30-40oz weight, 3-4in bbl, the right grips. Or, one of the fatter, heavier pistols. You know, even the a decently weighty 1911 with appropriate grips (ie, a wrap-around Hogue) could end up being one of the most recoil-friendly guns she could shoot, assuming the heavier "push" ends up being preferable to the snappier flip of the 9mm.

    Some of the S&W third-generation pistols might be a good choice, as well. Many of those were heavier, wider, and had excellent recoil characteristics. Even the smaller variants (ie, the 3900 series, such as the 3953) were great on the hands, for being compacts. Check the S&W 900 series, or the 6900 series. 3-gen, so they're all discontinued, but they are still exceptional choices. You just need to pick one that was popular enough that there are still plenty of parts around.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Nah. I'm done. Gads, wasn't that enough?! My fingers are cramped, anyway, from all those keys ...

    Hopefully that feedback helps. It's only my personal opinion, of course, but it's based on ones I've actually shot significant rounds through. I've shot each of those Kahrs and dozens of others, so (being a recoil wimp) I would think my basic comparisons would be something she could relate to. One person's experience.

    Hopefully she'll be able to find something that (a) fits her hand well and (b) is recoil friendly enough to be something she can use to train effectively. Gotta keep searching until one's found that fits that bill.

    One of the mid-sized revolvers might do, assuming ~30-40oz weight, 3-4in bbl, the right grips. Or, one of the fatter, heavier pistols. You know, even the a decently weighty 1911 with appropriate grips (ie, a wrap-around Hogue) could end up being one of the most recoil-friendly guns she could shoot, assuming the heavier "push" ends up being preferable to the snappier flip of the 9mm.

    Some of the S&W third-generation pistols might be a good choice, as well. Many of those were heavier, wider, and had excellent recoil characteristics. Even the smaller variants (ie, the 3900 series, such as the 3953) were great on the hands, for being compacts. Check the S&W 900 series, or the 6900 series. 3-gen, so they're all discontinued, but they are still exceptional choices. You just need to pick one that was popular enough that there are still plenty of parts around.
    I was actually thinking of the Springfield EMP for that reason... of course, I'd have to save my pennies and buy a .40 EMP for myself, or I'd get jealous...

    I was calling for more people to give your kind of feedback, but if you have any more anecdotes of your own, feel free :)

    The problem is, she'll carry her LCR, and she is a pretty good shot with it. But, because it hurts her hand, she won't practice with it. I She enjoys shooting, but once she gets past the .22, she loses interest because it hurts (understandably). She doesn't mind carrying some weight, her purse weighs more than my laptop bag, but she balks at bulk. She doesn't want something too big. That's what got me thinking about the steel-framed Kahrs and similar, they've got the compactness along with the heavier weight and longer grips (in the case of the K9), but are still super slim.
    Last edited by livewire; September 14th, 2012 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Merge
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    On the heavier-revolver track, how about a Ruger Redhawk 4in (KRH-444)? It's large and heavy enough to be great with recoil. The grip is wide and rubbery/padded enough to be a beauty to hold (while shooting). While it's chambered in .44mag, you can run .44spl through it, which dramatically tames the recoil as compared to .44mag. If a lower-powered .45ACP is a possibility, then there's no reason .44spl shouldn't be on the table as well. The Redhawk (or even Super Redhawk) with 4-5in bbl can be a wonderful gun to shoot, in the right load.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    She doesn't mind carrying some weight, her purse weighs more than my laptop bag, but she balks at bulk.
    Ah.

    The Kahrs are pretty darned attractive, size-wise. Hard to beat. But being thinner and lighter, they can be a bit rougher on the hands. The K9 is certainly one to check out. It'll keep the size down to something she can (perhaps) tolerate.

    Get a 1911 Commander into her hands, at some point. In the right low- to mid-power .45ACP load, it can be a joy to shoot. Particularly with a decent set of wrap-around Hogue grips. Larger than the K9, to be sure, but it might well be one of the sweeter guns for her to shoot. And if her bag's already a lead brick, perhaps she'll not notice the change much.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Ah.

    The Kahrs are pretty darned attractive, size-wise. Hard to beat. But being thinner and lighter, they can be a bit rougher on the hands. The K9 is certainly one to check out. It'll keep the size down to something she can (perhaps) tolerate.

    Get a 1911 Commander into her hands, at some point. In the right low- to mid-power .45ACP load, it can be a joy to shoot. Particularly with a decent set of wrap-around Hogue grips. Larger than the K9, to be sure, but it might well be one of the sweeter guns for her to shoot. And if her bag's already a lead brick, perhaps she'll not notice the change much.
    I might do that... though I still think she's going to have issues with the .45. I see the occasional commander-size 1911 chambered in 9mm though.

    I originally rejected the 1911s because they're single action with a manual safety, and I don't like manual safeties on my carry guns. Then I realized I was projecting my preferences on her, and she might actually prefer a manual safety.

    Of course, once I do find her an EDC she'll actually CED, I'm sure I'll be on the hook for finding her a carry purse. She's already rejected on-body carry, though I'll probably come back to that later after she's used to carrying every day.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    I originally rejected the 1911s because they're single action with a manual safety, and I don't like manual safeties on my carry guns. Then I realized I was projecting my preferences on her, and she might actually prefer a manual safety.
    Para Ordnance has their LDA (Light Double Action) 1911's, such as the CX745SK Companion. It's essentially a DAO Commander-sized 1911. Even their Stealth and Carry models might be options (Officer sized), though these will be snappier when shooting. On the used/auction sites you might check the 9mm Para Ordnance PXT LDA Carry and variants (CWX79R, CSX89R); ie, on GunBroker. Basically, a DAO 1911 in 9mm.

    And Heckler & Koch makes a few pistols that might well suit here. The P2000SK, the P2000, the HK45C. Possibly even the USP. Several have swappable backstraps, to allow fitting to the hand. And by comparison to many of the uber-lightweight plastic stuff out there, these days, they can be a comparative pleasure to shoot. Larger than many, yes, but might be the sort of combination she's looking for.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 14th, 2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: spelling
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Para Ordnance has their LDA (Light Double Action) 1911's, such as the CX745SK Companion. It's essentially a DAO Commander-sized 1911. Even their Stealth and Carry models might be options (Officer sized), though these will be snappier when shooting. On the used/auction sites you might check the 9mm Para Ordnance PXT LDA Carry and variants (CWX79R, CSX89R); ie, on GunBroker. Basically, a DAO 1911 in 9mm.

    And Heckler & Koch makes a few pistols that might well suit here. The P200SK, the P2000, the HK45C. Possibly even the USP. Several have swappable backstraps, to allow fitting to the hand. And by comparison to many of the uber-lightweight plastic stuff out there, these days, they can be a comparative pleasure to shoot. Larger than many, yes, but might be the sort of combination she's looking for.
    If you keep posting this stuff, I might have to print this thread out and send it to Santa this year
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    If you keep posting this stuff, I might have to print this thread out and send it to Santa this year
    If I keep posting this stuff, you're gonna have to call your tax guy first.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Don't forget that tuning the recoil via the cartridge and recoil spring is certainly one way to achieve a "nicer" recoil experience. It'll take some tuning time, to get the right combination. But so long as it still yields defensive penetration, that might well be the sort of thing that'll shove it into the "sweet spot" for her. No gun's going to be completely pleasant with an utterly hot load. But most any candidate can be made much more tame via the "right" load and spring combination.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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