9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9

This is a discussion on 9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm Don't forget that tuning the recoil via the cartridge and recoil spring is certainly one way to achieve a "nicer" recoil ...

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Thread: 9mm Purse carry... MK9 and K9 compared to CM9

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Don't forget that tuning the recoil via the cartridge and recoil spring is certainly one way to achieve a "nicer" recoil experience. It'll take some tuning time, to get the right combination. But so long as it still yields defensive penetration, that might well be the sort of thing that'll shove it into the "sweet spot" for her. No gun's going to be completely pleasant with an utterly hot load. But most any candidate can be made much more tame via the "right" load and spring combination.
    That's one of the reasons I thought I would get the best result with a standard pressure 9mm load. If we can get "close" enough with a defensive pistol, I might start modding to get it "just right", but you can only get so close by tweaking.

    I had a cousin in-law who had a FN Five-seveN I was going to have her shoot, but he sold it before I connected the dots. I would be willing to spend the money on a niche cartridge if she would carry it and practice with it.
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    If she's open to 380ACP, don't forget the Walther PPK. Particularly for somewhat smaller hands, it can be one of those "dream" fitments. Like the Kahr K9, it can feel ... not too hot, not too cold, but just right. The 380's going to be less stout than a 9mm, and the PPK is nearly the weight of the K9. Worth trying.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  4. #33
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    If she's having hand-issues with a small sized-9 do not give her a .45 or (for Heaven's sake) a .40.

    Weight is going to be what makes recoil more manageable and then it's going to be a burden to carry on her shoulder.. especially for extended periods of time.

    I'd go with mid-sized 9s myself... Glock 19 or 26 (not mid-size, I know but.. whatever), M&P shield or M&P 9c. The like. But, yeah, she's going to notice the difference in weight of her purse.

    I agree that she should empty her purse as much as possible before hand and make sure she gets either a good gun purse or designates a single pouch for her gun... last thing you want is a set of keys to get in the trigger guard and shoot the bank associate in the foot.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If she's open to 380ACP, don't forget the Walther PPK. Particularly for somewhat smaller hands, it can be one of those "dream" fitments. Like the Kahr K9, it can feel ... not too hot, not too cold, but just right. The 380's going to be less stout than a 9mm, and the PPK is nearly the weight of the K9. Worth trying.

    I generally consider a 9mm a "minimum", but this definetely falls into the "a gun carried is better than a superior gun at home" category. That being said, the only issue with the .380 is that the actions are generally not as recoil-absorbing, and the guns are lighter, so any benefit to the lighter round gets eaten up in disadvantages from the pistol itself. If the Walther is heavier, it might work out though, I'll look into it.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    If she's having hand-issues with a small sized-9 do not give her a .45 or (for Heaven's sake) a .40.

    Weight is going to be what makes recoil more manageable and then it's going to be a burden to carry on her shoulder.. especially for extended periods of time.

    I'd go with mid-sized 9s myself... Glock 19 or 26 (not mid-size, I know but.. whatever), M&P shield or M&P 9c. The like. But, yeah, she's going to notice the difference in weight of her purse.

    I agree that she should empty her purse as much as possible before hand and make sure she gets either a good gun purse or designates a single pouch for her gun... last thing you want is a set of keys to get in the trigger guard and shoot the bank associate in the foot.
    Interestingly enough... she doesn't have any issues with my XDs (even the little one) in .40 S&W. I really think a double-stack will work best, but her lifestyle lends to a slimmer frame pistol. And even if I do get her to on-body carry, she's a big fan of those wide flimsy belts that barely hold themselves up, so it'll be some 'alternative' carry. But, one project at a time.

    I really just want her to find something that will make her enjoy shooting without hurting. I even thought about getting the LCR .22lr for plinking.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    Guys, if handguns keep getting bigger this lady will need a back pack for her other gear so she can haul the 26 to 32 oz gun around in her purse. Best thang to do is take her to great indoor range and let find her own handgun. Most ranges will let you use any handgun i one caliber they have to try it out for one fee. None of us know what she will like. recoil is very subjective. Let the range officers or another skill lady shooter help and most ranges have women to help . My 100lb daughter will not shoot my cm9, will shot a box of ammo thru my cw9 but does not enjoy it . A glock17, she will wear it out but hate the large size. Also hates my 4" DW 357 but with 38sp its a very mild. And use's my old taurus 85SS for camping with a 125gr dpx. Livewires lady will find on her own handgun most likely. if someone lives near them and wants to loan a pistol that also helps. I meet a lady looking for something smaller that a M&Pc she had and lived close enough to let her shot everthing I had that was lighter in weight.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
    Guys, if handguns keep getting bigger this lady will need a back pack for her other gear so she can haul the 26 to 32 oz gun around in her purse. Best thang to do is take her to great indoor range and let find her own handgun. Most ranges will let you use any handgun i one caliber they have to try it out for one fee. None of us know what she will like. recoil is very subjective. Let the range officers or another skill lady shooter help and most ranges have women to help . My 100lb daughter will not shoot my cm9, will shot a box of ammo thru my cw9 but does not enjoy it . A glock17, she will wear it out but hate the large size. Also hates my 4" DW 357 but with 38sp its a very mild. And use's my old taurus 85SS for camping with a 125gr dpx. Livewires lady will find on her own handgun most likely. if someone lives near them and wants to loan a pistol that also helps. I meet a lady looking for something smaller that a M&Pc she had and lived close enough to let her shot everthing I had that was lighter in weight.
    I'm just trying to narrow the field. I'd like to get it down to three or four choices, as shooting more than that will turn her off of it if those first choices aren't right.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    I'm just trying to narrow the field. I'd like to get it down to three or four choices, as shooting more than that will turn her off of it if those first choices aren't right.
    With the major limiting factor being recoil-sensitivity, I'm assuming that all the other factors (size, weight, caliber) are secondary criteria. Based on that, I'd recommend a short list something like this:

    • 1911 Commander, all steel, in a lower- to mid-power 45ACP. As you know, less snappy/sharp than a 9mm. Depends if her hands can tolerate the heavier push versus a sharper/snappier recoil.

    • A ~35oz+ steel revolver, preferably with bbl of at least 3in, ie Ruger Redhawk or GP-100, S&W K-frame, Colt Python. Don't ignore the .357 frames, or the .44mag frames. You can always run .38spl or .44spl through them, and they'll be much more tame than their "airweight" counterparts.

    • A mid-sized CZ 75 series, HK45C/P2000, FN 9mm, Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact Pro 9mm, or similar.

    • A third-gen S&W semi-auto, ie 5900 or 6900 series, perhaps a 3900 series if she can handle the smaller/lighter frame. Tend to be some of the more-popular "old school" rigs at rental ranges.

    • A Kahr K9 9mm, Walther PPK 380, CZ 83 380, Bersa 380 ... steel, ~22-28oz range.


    Might take awhile to find an example of each. As you might imagine, several aren't likely to be found at the average rental range.

    Worst case, you could pick up a couple of used/abused examples via the auction sites, to test, selling the one(s) that don't work out, picking up a couple more for testing, sell ... Assuming you've got one or two of these already, it might work out to ~$1500 max, to test the lot, going with well-used auction "finds."

    Tricks I've done to "tune" a gun up/down to run right, or be more recoil friendly: altering the cartridge loads, recoil springs, beefier grips. In a few cases, I've also swapped out the lighter recoil rods for heavy rods I had made up (ie, a heavy stainless bar stock, machined).

    Good luck with the hunting.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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