Kimber 1911s not working out for SWAT cops. - Page 4

Kimber 1911s not working out for SWAT cops.

This is a discussion on Kimber 1911s not working out for SWAT cops. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow! I just bought a Super Carry Custom HD yesterday. Personally, I love the ergonomics of the rolled grip and the ambi safety. I shoot/train ...

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Thread: Kimber 1911s not working out for SWAT cops.

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    Wow! I just bought a Super Carry Custom HD yesterday. Personally, I love the ergonomics of the rolled grip and the ambi safety. I shoot/train left and right (just a hair better with my right). On my bike, I usually carry left, so the ambi safety is perfect for me.
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  2. #47
    Member Array Ceapea's Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me when, approximately, Kimber started using MIM parts? I have a chance to buy an '04 Super Match for a pretty good price. Were the '04's considered "better" than more
    recently manufactured Kimbers?

    Thanks.
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  3. #48
    Member Array Coltman 77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    So I'm in a Hazmat class all week with people from various public safety agencies around central FL, and one of them is a SWAT cop with a county Sheriff's department (should I say who, or is that not acceptable?). Anyway, we were talking guns on a break since he was wearing a Kimber 1911 and I was surprised to see a single action in a cop's holster. He was telling me that of the 30 pistols they had bought (for a great price including tac light) that 18 of them had been returned to Kimber for peening of the firing pin hole. He said no guns had slam-fired but one did separate the firing pin, spring, and back plate when the pin locked forward amd the plate moved downwards. He also said there had been failures of the (MIM) ambi safety levers due to cracking. He wasn't sure how many of those had occured. In talking with him I get the impression he knows more than the average guy about MIM and guns in general. He also said he asked for his Glock back and was told no. FWIW, ammo is 200gr +p Gold Dot. He was carrying in a Serpa OWB.
    Kimbers don't seen to be working out for any agencies lately.

    This reminds me of a recent incident with Kimber 1911's poor quality with NC Law Enforcement:

    " Little more than a year after buying 150 collector-grade handguns, officials at the N.C. Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement say the $1,055 pistols were so unreliable they had to get rid of them.

    ALE Director John Ledford said the Kimber pistols repeatedly suffered such problems as rounds jamming during training exercises, broken sights and the weapon's safety button sometimes falling off. He made a deal with a local firearms dealer to swap the pricey pistols for less expensive handguns without spending any additional money.

    "Failure of a weapon during training is problematic enough, but if any of these types of failures occurred during a life-and-death situation the result could be loss of life to a sworn member of the division or an innocent civilian," Ledford wrote in a November memo to justify the new weapons. "During violent encounters with armed suspects, reliability and speed are paramount."


    Link: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/...nreliable.html

    What a shame, Kimber used to make a decent pistol. Very sad.
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  4. #49
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    i did a Gun Fighting Course last year and one person brought a Pair of Kimbers. Both failed in the first 200 rounds of the class. They stove piped and failed to eject with WWB ammo. OK so much for all the rest of the Glocks in the class that rocked to the final test!. Did your Gun Fighting Class have a final test? Mine did and I passed it! The guy that owned the Kimbers said he was going to buy a pair of Glocks to replace the Kimbers.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    but very few well-managed manufacturers risk their quality reputation for ANY amount of per-part price reduction.

    And let's not confuse the MIM process with a casting process. MIM is much more akin to the injection molding of plastics to create parts that are difficult/expensive to machine. A casting process (almost) always includes subsequent machining to create the final part. Very different animals.
    Maybe the manufacturers that risked their reputation came to the conclusion it is worthwhile in terms of the bottom line.


    Quote Originally Posted by revldm View Post
    Wow! All this Kimber bashing. I just bought one and so far I love it. Makes me wonder though if I just bought a high priced junker? I hope not because it was a gun I had wanted for a long time. So far I have put about 250 rounds thru it with no problems. I guess time will tell.
    Not everyone has issues with their Kimber. The ones that don't wind up very happy, I heard. 250 rounds w/o any problems sounds like yours is good. Regarding MIM, I heard if a part is bad, it will go early in the pistol's lifespan. Don't know how many rounds in you have to go to declare the MIM part to begood. Another idea is to replace any parts most likely to go. I'd try to find out which are suspect, if any in particular.



    Quote Originally Posted by Illusive Man View Post
    If you like it, enjoy it. I read all the same stuff when I bought mine. I worried about the MIM parts and all the other stuff folks bash kimber about. I decided to just shoot the thing, and it has been flawless. The only failure was a magazine failure, and that was with a CMC magazine. My stock kimber mags (which most have said are junk) have been flawless. Go out, shoot your gun, and enjoy it.
    One poll on 1911forum showed 50% had an issue (may be as small as 1 jam-don't remember) within 300 rounds. That means the other 50% are probably good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coltman 77 View Post
    Kimbers don't seen to be working out for any agencies lately.

    This reminds me of a recent incident with Kimber 1911's poor quality with NC Law Enforcement:

    [B]" Little more than a year after buying 150 collector-grade handguns, officials at the N.C. Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement say the $1,055 pistols were so unreliable they had to get rid of them.

    Link: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/...nreliable.html

    What a shame, Kimber used to make a decent pistol. Very sad.
    I read about this, too. Kimber should have had the LEO go directly to them, and Kimber should put damn good care into a batch for L.E.

  6. #51
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    Ok here are the issues with Kimbers and other close fitting tolerance 1911 style hand guns. Get the specs tight and the slide to rail fittings very close and then shoot nasty ammo in them that leaves powder residue and you get stoppages. There are ways to fix this and that is reload with cleaner ammo and lesser loads of powder for the reloads. More powder means more junk to clog the gun and slide rails. A lot of factory loads shoot nasty and cause issues in tight tolerance guns. Tight tolerance guns require a slide take down every 2-300 rounds and a cleaning of the rails. If not, you get stoppages with common ammo shooting thru the gun. Go take a weekend gun fighting course where you will shoot 400-600 rounds and you will need to clean your gun 2-4 times. Otherwise you will be sitting on the sidelines while the rest of us with Glocks will be shooting everything in sight!
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  7. #52
    Member Array MeanAction's Avatar
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    I read an article about the Colts that the USMC purchased having issues too. I tried to find it to post but couldn't.

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanAction View Post
    I read an article about the Colts that the USMC purchased having issues too. I tried to find it to post but couldn't.
    Is this the article you were looking for?

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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
    Go take a weekend gun fighting course where you will shoot 400-600 rounds and you will need to clean your gun 2-4 times. Otherwise you will be sitting on the sidelines while the rest of us with Glocks will be shooting everything in sight!
    Balderdash. The last 'serious' pistol-only course I took we ran through about 1000 rounds over 2 days. About a third of the 2 dozen attendees were shooting 1911s, mostly Colts and Springers, with the balance divided among Glocks and M&Ps with a few USPs thrown in (from the Border Patrol guys). The ONLY gun that choked over 2 days was a Glock - go figure - with a broken internal part.

    I simply wiped my 1911 down at the end of the day and added a drop of lube to the rails. Oh, and it was one of those lousy, MIM-packed, no-good Kimbers, a Custom CDP Pro II (see photo. BTW, the runt to my left in the photo is Pat Rogers.)
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  10. #55
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    Here is a list, taken from the 1911 Forum, of Mim parts in the Kimbers. If you have a early first series gun, (1996-98 or a Clackamus Oregon gun) you're most likely ok. Other than that, (series II guns) you can bet you have the Mim parts below in your gun. I'm NOT bashing the guns, or the people who work there and build em, them as I own several of the Kimber guns (no series ll guns though) but it seems the Upper Level Managment doesn't seem to give a rip. That's my beef with em. I can take a new Kimber out of the display case at the Store, rack the slide and see rusting on the barrels, which has been ongoing ever since I can remember. Something wrong with that picture. I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my view on this.
    so here it goes:
    MIM parts in a Kimber,

    hammer
    sear
    disconnector
    firing pin stop
    grip safety
    thumb safety
    slide stop
    front sight
    rear sight
    plunger tube
    barrel bushing
    mag release
    ejector
    Series II external extractor
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  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    . All law enforcement and military can obtain quality new and used firearms at greatly reduced prices. For example, my STI cost me only $855 NEW about 5 years ago. I don't need a kimber, as I shoot the gun and its not a showpiece. The m9 works out great for practical purposes. It's a less expensive option which had proven its worth in combat. Argue all you want, I see no reason for the taxpayer to fork out extra so a cop can have the sports car and showpiece gun without having to pay for it. Unemployment is at 8% nationally, but how many no longer qualify for benfits? The real count around here is close to 20%. Give us a break and let us catch up already...
    Have you only ever owned and driven one car your whole life? Probable not. Why? Cars wear out under "normal" use. LE vehicles are subject to VERY heavy abuse for what I would like to think is obvious reasons. At some point, it becomes less economically viable to keep fixing a vehicle that is falling apart or been wrecked several times and could affect the LEOs job and safety. If he needs to get somewhere and the car breaks down, that could cost innocent civilians lives? (yes , I know.). A Chevrolet Corvette or Mazda Miata is a sports car. Dodge Chargers, Chevy Caprices(new LE only vehicle) or Impala and Ford Intercepters (based on the Taurus, since the Crown Vic aka CVPI is dead.) are purpose built OR purposely modified for the demands and duties that LEOs demand from their vehicles on a daily basis.

    http://www.government-fleet.com/chan...x?prestitial=1

    The newer LE vehicles average 21MPH faster top speeds and have much quicker acceleration than the outgoing CVPI models.

    so no, CVPI is NOT just as fast as the newer, more reliable, more fuel efficient and safer police cars are. Is LEO's safety of no importance? Do they not have families too?

    ON TOPIC: Why would they switch to a 1911 from a Glock anyway? Wouldn't the higher capacity be of benefit to LEOs?


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  12. #57
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    My Kimber has just over 21,000 rounds through it, I have replaced the firing pin stop, with Ed Brown, as to get the empty cases to fall in the same area. Also have replaced the extractor with Wilson because the MIM extractor would require resetting every few hundred rounds. I have shot 3-4 hundred rounds in a day without any failures at all. Seems to me it will shoot all the ammo I am carrying at any given time, for defense.
    1911 when a follow up shot just isn't an option

  13. #58
    Member Array Fnfalguy's Avatar
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    I love my Kimber pistols. However, I feel that when Kimber departed from their original 1911 designs and flooded the market with Type II pistols that they damaged their brand given the problems that developed. I am a proponent of "go slow to go fast" in business and in one's personal live so I believe that Kimber scaled too quickly and obviously stumbled. In fact, I still believe that they need to focus more on their magazines since I have the best performance with their pistols when I use Wilson Combat magazines.

    Since I am a degreed Manufacturing Engineer I'd like to give you some additional insight. Forgings compared castings do indeed have different properties. However, powdered metallurgy (MIM) allows for small metal parts to be held at extremely tight tolerances (after being "sintered" and "fired") and keep their strength. This process has been used for many years for many different industries so this manufacturing process is quite advanced.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntkb View Post
    My Kimber has just over 21,000 rounds through it, I have replaced the firing pin stop, with Ed Brown, as to get the empty cases to fall in the same area.
    OK, I need some education here. How does the firing pin stop affect where the empties land?
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    OK, I need some education here. How does the firing pin stop affect where the empties land?
    If the fit is loose allowing the extractor to move about?
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

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