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self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts?

This is a discussion on self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by oldshirt OK I admit this is a little esoteric and out there and I'm probably in the mood for more of a ...

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Thread: self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    OK I admit this is a little esoteric and out there and I'm probably in the mood for more of a discussion around the campfire than a nuts and bolts search for any true advice but I wondered if any of you see any difference between an armed citizen wanting to protect him/herself and family vs a police officer or soldier and how that difference can effect their choice of weapons etc?

    I guess what I am getting at is I have gotten the impression over the years that manufactures will market a firearm for police use and will boast of all it's 'tactical' advantages and market how it will benifit the officer in performing his role whether it be street patrol, undercover, SWAT etc. Then when the police buy-off on it then it spreads throughout the civilian market.

    Same is somewhat true of the military. Look at the rise in popularity of the AR platform and how much the M4 has entered the civilian market.

    Now don't get me wrong, I own and enjoy a variety of guns and have a Saiga (AK platform) SKS, have had several wonder-9s over the years and I do have an AR stripped receiver and parts kit - just haven't put it together yet.

    But now that I have been making a commitment to carry whenever I leave the house and have a loaded defensive firearm on every level of the house, I am wondering if law enforcement/military "tactical" really applies or is relevant to an armed citizen defending his castle or his person? I am not a police officer apprehending felons or raiding a drug house. I am not a soldier in combat. I am just a common Joe protecting his home, family and self. should armed citizens be following law enforcement/military's lead when it comes to self defense or are our needs better served by a completely different paradigm?

    Do I need an M4 or tactical this or that to defend my home and castle or it is even wise to do so?? I have the feeling that in reality more home invasions have been stopped and more muggings and rapes and assaults have been prevented with harsh language and pissed off demeanor than everything else combined (not that I want to bank on that or have that as my only option)

    Case in point, I am soon to inherit my father's 50+ year old Colt Detective Special. I am planning on teaching my wife to shoot it (she does like to shoot) and putting it into service as one of the home defense guns. Will it really be any less effective as a castle defender than a high-cap Glock?

    Does someone really need to get an M4 when they have Grandpa's old lever action 30-30? Is a 'tactical' shotgun with all the rails and gizmos really more effective and practical than a New England Firearms break-open single shot that you can buy at pawn shops all day long for $100? Is it??

    Again, I am just wanting to hear your thoughts and musings on armed citizen self defense vs 'tactical.' are they different? are they the same? are they similar or on completely different planes of reality?

    What say you?
    A few thoughts:
    Soldiers and many police perform small unit tactics. Civilians in a self defence situation do not. This is the key motivater behind weapon choice.

    Whereas you leave uatended firearms around your home, if a soldier did this around the barracks he would be court-martled.

    I'm of the firm opinion that leaving guns laying around, even if hidden, is grose negligence and should never ever be don. The firearm should either be on your person or unloaded and locked away.



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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    The Internet started out as a military project to maintain communications in time of war. So, using the OP's postulation, shouldn't we be using carrier pigeons for this forum?
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  3. #18
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    I believe that if you can utilize a break action 20 ga, go for it. If you can swing it with a single action revolver, go ahead. If you feel comfortable with a high capacity semi auto, more power to you. AR-15? your choice. Henry goldenboy? Its up to you. Do whatever you do well. Its your house, you know it intimately. They WONT. I personally opt for semi auto pistols and rifles, but thats due to my familiarity with them. I also use a WW1&2 bolt action rifle for home defense as well as a new pump shotgun. Nothing wrong with a little extra firepower now and then.

    Id like to see the man who watches his partner in crime get dropped by a homeowner with a break shotgun and keeps going up the stairs, because that man is dumb and id like to get his demise on video.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    A few thoughts:
    Soldiers and many police perform small unit tactics. Civilians in a self defence situation do not. This is the key motivater behind weapon choice.

    Whereas you leave uatended firearms around your home, if a soldier did this around the barracks he would be court-martled.

    I'm of the firm opinion that leaving guns laying around, even if hidden, is grose negligence and should never ever be don. The firearm should either be on your person or unloaded and locked away.



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    Ive got loaded unattended firearms HIDDEN in my house. HIDDEN=only I know where they are (and, of course, the cat.) Its redonkulous to even speak of it, but...If UCMJ applied to my home...snowballs chance in hell of finding them. As for the small unit tactics, criminals dont stack up before they breach a door. They also usually cant spell breach or tactic. Bottom line is: Youre in YOUR home, you know it intimately, you have the advantage. All you have to do is take a look around you and figure out your avenues of escape and find the hard spots. The only thing slowing you down after that is not knowing how to properly utilize your arsenal.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    My carry gun is most generally a SIG, Glock, or an M&P.

    My home defense gun is most generally a SIG, Glock, or an M&P.

  5. #20
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    The idea that only military and police use tactics is absurd. I use tactics when hunting, fishing, negotiation contracts or deciding which side of the street offers me the most advantage if I am attacked. Even most common games require tactics and therefore are often used to teach tactics.

    Michael
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  6. #21
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    Do I need an M4 or tactical this or that to defend my home and castle or it is even wise to do so??

    Does someone really need to get an M4 when they have Grandpa's old lever action 30-30?
    The beautiful thing about this country is that we are still able to freely exercise choices in accordance with our needs or wants.

    My needs are different than yours. I don't know yours and you don't know mine. Although you might be completely content with yelling and screaming at a group of gang bangers breaking into your house, I might not be. Just because your family isn't trained with various weapons platforms, doesn't mean that mine aren't. You might be OK with a single shot 410, I might not be comfortable with a AR with a 100 round drum underneath it.

    Its a pretty liberal concept for someone to want to regulate what someone else wants because of what they perceive is a need or not, yet that is exactly what the gun banners constantly attempt. I hear of big city slickers saying that I don't need a scoped "sniper rifle" to deer hunt...yet they have never been out of the city limits of concrete, never hunted a day in their life. I hear some high falutin Senator from a state where American citizens has less freedom than many third world countries telling me that I don't need any more than 6 rounds in a handgun and that I am less than a good citizen for owning an unregistered gun, yet this person has never fired a shot in anger, never seen the carnage of evil, and has not a clue of how I live my life yet they insist that they know what I need better than I do.
    Even some gun owners fall in to the camp of anti, without even realizing it. I got into a heated discussion with an uncle of mine from New Jersey that was part of an exclusive deer lease there. He was of the thought process that no one needed an assault weapon and that they were the scourge of society. He hunted with a 30-30 and didn't like the fact of anyone using a semi- auto like a Remington 7400 or a Browning or any thing that you could fire more than once by simply squeezing the trigger.

    Its an age old process that has been going on since the beginning of time. Your neighbor has a bad day and shoots his wife with an AR and some city councilman wanting some attention wants to ban the ownership of AR's because he thinks that no one "needs" them. Never mind that he wants to punish the actions of everyone by limiting what they own, just because of the action of one, in his feeble political mind, it makes perfectly good sense.

    As for me, I don't care what you own. Got a few hundred .50 BMG rifles and 10 millions rounds of ammo to go with them? More power to ya. Got a few mini guns that spit out 3000 rounds a minute? Great. Invite me over to shoot them sometime. Do you need them? Probably not. Do you want them?

    Thats good enough for me.
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  7. #22
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    IMO the word tactical is one of the most (if not the most) overused terms in the defensive community. You have tactical guns, tactical knives, tactical flashlights, tactical clothing, tactical pens. I'm sure someone markets tactical toilet paper and tactical bubble gum. Just think how the people at BIC could increase their lighter sales if they started marketing a tactical lighter! Rumor has it Budweiser is going to introduce a tactical beer.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    IMO the word tactical is one of the most (if not the most) overused terms in the defensive community. You have tactical guns, tactical knives, tactical flashlights, tactical clothing, tactical pens. I'm sure someone markets tactical toilet paper and tactical bubble gum. Just think how the people at BIC could increase their lighter sales if they started marketing a tactical lighter! Rumor has it Budweiser is going to introduce a tactical beer.
    Boy, no kidding. When I hear the word "tactical" it conjures images of some wingnut with a pair of drop holsters, 37 mags, cammies, and an 870.
    And he is buying a Snickers in Walmart.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I'm sorry the whole thread seems suspect to me. It's almost as if the OP wants us to admit civilians don't need similar weapons as LEOs & the military.

    -
    Not at all. Again I own and enjoy shooting a Saiga, SKS, I've had a number of high-cap 9s over the years and I have an AR reciever, just haven't put it together yet. I EDC a P3AT with laser sight so I have no issue with military/LEO or modern weapons.

    And I agree with you that "need" has nothing to do with it.

    I admitted from the start that the topic is somewhat nebulous but I just wanted to hear other people's thoughts if the concepts and practices of citizen "self defense" is something different than "tactical" weaponry for LEO/military.

    I personally have no more clarity but I have enjoyed reading the discussions.
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  10. #25
    Member Array oldshirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    A few thoughts:


    Whereas you leave uatended firearms around your home, if a soldier did this around the barracks he would be court-martled.

    I'm of the firm opinion that leaving guns laying around, even if hidden, is grose negligence and should never ever be don. The firearm should either be on your person or unloaded and locked away.



    .
    Just to clarify, every single firearm and every single bullet I own is locked up in one of several safes. I even keep the kid's arrows and bowfishing arrows under lock and key.

    I do have the loaded home defense guns in Gunvaults and when I leave the house my carry gun comes out of the safe and is on me.

  11. #26
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    To me tactics is training not equipment. You can have all of the tactical gizmos you want hangin off your M4orgery but if you can't shoot it, or your weapon is unreliable then your tactics suck.

    I train with my weapons that were common place in police departments 50 years ago. Heck even my FN-FAL is a 60 year old design, but I can use it well.

    Like I said it is training and mindset, without those all of the "tactical" gizmos in the world won't help you.
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  12. #27
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    I believe that if you can utilize a break action 20 ga, go for it. If you can swing it with a single action revolver, go ahead. If you feel comfortable with a high capacity semi auto, more power to you. AR-15? your choice. Henry goldenboy? Its up to you. Do whatever you do well. Its your house, you know it intimately. They WONT. I personally opt for semi auto pistols and rifles, but thats due to my familiarity with them. I also use a WW1&2 bolt action rifle for home defense as well as a new pump shotgun. Nothing wrong with a little extra firepower now and then.

    Id like to see the man who watches his partner in crime get dropped by a homeowner with a break shotgun and keeps going up the stairs, because that man is dumb and id like to get his demise on video.
    Ive got loaded unattended firearms HIDDEN in my house. HIDDEN=only I know where they are (and, of course, the cat.) Its redonkulous to even speak of it, but...If UCMJ applied to my home...snowballs chance in hell of finding them. As for the small unit tactics, criminals dont stack up before they breach a door. They also usually cant spell breach or tactic. Bottom line is: Youre in YOUR home, you know it intimately, you have the advantage. All you have to do is take a look around you and figure out your avenues of escape and find the hard spots. The only thing slowing you down after that is not knowing how to properly utilize your arsenal.
    Hazards all. A firearm should never be left unsecured, "hidden" or otherwise. That's just an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.



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  13. #28
    Member Array oldshirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    IMO the word tactical is one of the most (if not the most) overused terms in the defensive community. You have tactical guns, tactical knives, tactical flashlights, tactical clothing, tactical pens. I'm sure someone markets tactical toilet paper and tactical bubble gum. Just think how the people at BIC could increase their lighter sales if they started marketing a tactical lighter! Rumor has it Budweiser is going to introduce a tactical beer.
    In a way this is kinda what I am getting at. IMHO the word 'tactical' and even some of the concepts of tactical weaponry have become more marketing hype than anything. Does an UltraWhizBang Deathinflictor 5000 actually protect the castle better than a nice walnut stocked Wingmaster handed down from Uncle Myron when it's in the hands of someone that knows how to use and is ready willing and able to use it??

    I'm not saying that people should be limited to what other people think they "need" and neither am I saying that people shouldn't be using new technologies or rejecting things that were initially developed for military or law enforcement use. I not saying that at all.

    I am just wondering if people interested in primarily self defense as an armed citizen are being lured into the "tactical" market more than necessary and overlooking perfectly viable weaponry from more accessable sporting and general purpose markets.
    Secret Spuk and tcox4freedom like this.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    Hazards all. A firearm should never be left unsecured, "hidden" or otherwise. That's just an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.



    No spell-checker with Tapatalk, sorry.
    Disagree to a certain extent. Our house is my wife, myself, and now part time son who is in college :) We all are familiar with firearms. We do not carry in our house but have our EDC's handy and keep a shotgun and AR loaded in our bedroom. I am not locking up everything every single time I run to Walmart. My house. My choice. If we have visitors then all firearms are locked up except EDC's.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Disagree to a certain extent. Our house is my wife, myself, and now part time son who is in college :) We all are familiar with firearms. We do not carry in our house but have our EDC's handy and keep a shotgun and AR loaded in our bedroom. I am not locking up everything every single time I run to Walmart. My house. My choice. If we have visitors then all firearms are locked up except EDC's.
    Changes nothing I said.



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