self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts?

This is a discussion on self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by buckeye .45 Well, how tactical do you think a 1903 Springfield in .30-06 or a M1 Garand are? Back in the day ...

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Thread: self defense vs 'tactical'? what are your thoughts?

  1. #46
    Member Array Coltman 77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Well, how tactical do you think a 1903 Springfield in .30-06 or a M1 Garand are? Back in the day they were the tactical cat's pajamas.

    The explosion of the AR onto the civilian market is a logical step if you look at the history of the civilian firearms market. The M-16 is the longest serving rifle in the history of the US military, millions of veterans have become intimately familiar with them through service. So, it is a natural place for them to look when they want a civilian rifle. The same has been true through virtually the whole history of this nation.

    And "Tactical" gets mis-used a lot. It actual denotes something that is " of or relating to combat tactics."

    When you are defending yourself, you really need to have some sort of tactical profeciency. I am not saying dress in all black and duct tape SAAPI plates to yourself. But you need to understand basics of cover vs concealment, defensive mindsets, and other techniques.

    Tactical is more about mindsets than tools, just because something is black and plastic, doesn't make it tactical, and doesn't make it more deadly that something that is walnut and steel.
    Great post buckeye, beautifully stated! You nailed it IMO.
    "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less".
    General Robert E. Lee

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  3. #47
    Member Array Nebraska12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    And.....BTW there really is Tactical Toilet Paper and it's even available in Digital Camouflage.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    With regard to TACTICAL Socks - There actually are socks that were developed for the Military that are breathable Gore-Tex and are 100% waterproof and so if you are a hunter or a wilderness camper...you might find a good use for those Tactical Socks.
    I agree wholeheartedly. If there is a practical use for the item and it is anything of quality, the tactical tag really doesn't matter.

    Interesting, tactical toilet paper?

    As for the socks....really didn't know they existed. Those you mention sound extremely useful, especially for hunting/camping. Thanks, I'll have to check them out.
    'Fortes Fortuna Juvat'
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    A well regulated militia, etc

    A tactically trained militia, etc

    We ought to be more tactical, as in training and mindset like mentioned above. And less gullible in tactical marketing.

    Gun ownership ain't about hunting, sporting, hobbying, etc.

    It's about being a free society and having the tools and training to keep it that way.




    Sent from my Galaxy S2
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    It's "Tacticool" not "Tactical"
    My 7 +1 Pump 12ga used to be called a Riot Shotgun or a Police shotgun or a Combat Shotgun. Now it's Tactical.
    "Tactical" is to this decade what "Harley Davidson" was to the last one.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  6. #50
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    What a great thread begun by Oldshirt! I hadn't seen it until now.

    As an old geezer I feel we have a generation who is a bit blinded by the perception that the firearms of today are radically different and superior in application than designs from a century ago. Many, both here on the forum and at the local gun range, like to denigrate the older designs and even ridicule those who persist in fielding such firearms.

    Folks, we're still using self-contained metallic cartridges, a design that dates to the 1860s. By the 1890s developments along this same cartridge design were capable of delivering terminal ballistics comparable to any popular cartridge embraced today. By 1912 there were viable semi-automatic rifles, shotguns, and handguns in the hands of the nation's populace. Many of the cartridges then (and even some of the firearms designs) are still wildly popular today.

    Along with an M1 Carbine, I keep a Winchester Model 1907 .351 handy for household defense, just because I admire the design of the rifle and the ballistics of the cartridge which I consider superior to the .223 for most any purpose out to 150 yards. The Model 1907 and its cartridge were introduced 105 years ago. It's a cleverly engineered rifle featuring what is effectively a simple blow-back action design. I'll wager that this rifle would fire more shots without cleaning or breakage than any AR 15 ever built. Its only downfall is that it's made of expensive steel forgings, requiring extensive precision machine work to fabricate. Firearms designs these days aren't necessarily superior in function or use. They're only cheaper to produce, using cheaper materials and production methods. The Winchester Model 1907 and its cartridge are obsolete now but only because the current market dictates it. Is the old '07 tactical? In actual application, an enthusiastic defense could be mounted with it that would give up nothing to an AR 15. The '07 has a slight limitation in its 5-rnd and 10-rnd magazines but the rifle is a snap to reload rapidly and it is after all, a semi-automatic repeater.

    I have an AR 15 but it stays put away. A person is only fooling himself if he thinks that only the "latest and greatest" up-to-date firearms are worthy of consideration for serious purposes. Until we get away from self-contained metallic cartridges there really is less difference in the various systems than meets the eye. The truth that we can't get away from is that it's operator skills that make the real difference and we can't buy skills unless one considers the cash outlay for practice ammo as buying skills.

    Tactical is only a word.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldshirt View Post
    OK I admit this is a little esoteric and out there and I'm probably in the mood for more of a discussion around the campfire than a nuts and bolts search for any true advice but I wondered if any of you see any difference between an armed citizen wanting to protect him/herself and family vs a police officer or soldier and how that difference can effect their choice of weapons etc?

    I guess what I am getting at is I have gotten the impression over the years that manufactures will market a firearm for police use and will boast of all it's 'tactical' advantages and market how it will benifit the officer in performing his role whether it be street patrol, undercover, SWAT etc. Then when the police buy-off on it then it spreads throughout the civilian market.

    Same is somewhat true of the military. Look at the rise in popularity of the AR platform and how much the M4 has entered the civilian market.

    Now don't get me wrong, I own and enjoy a variety of guns and have a Saiga (AK platform) SKS, have had several wonder-9s over the years and I do have an AR stripped receiver and parts kit - just haven't put it together yet.

    But now that I have been making a commitment to carry whenever I leave the house and have a loaded defensive firearm on every level of the house, I am wondering if law enforcement/military "tactical" really applies or is relevant to an armed citizen defending his castle or his person? I am not a police officer apprehending felons or raiding a drug house. I am not a soldier in combat. I am just a common Joe protecting his home, family and self. should armed citizens be following law enforcement/military's lead when it comes to self defense or are our needs better served by a completely different paradigm?

    Do I need an M4 or tactical this or that to defend my home and castle or it is even wise to do so?? I have the feeling that in reality more home invasions have been stopped and more muggings and rapes and assaults have been prevented with harsh language and pissed off demeanor than everything else combined (not that I want to bank on that or have that as my only option)

    Case in point, I am soon to inherit my father's 50+ year old Colt Detective Special. I am planning on teaching my wife to shoot it (she does like to shoot) and putting it into service as one of the home defense guns. Will it really be any less effective as a castle defender than a high-cap Glock?

    Does someone really need to get an M4 when they have Grandpa's old lever action 30-30? Is a 'tactical' shotgun with all the rails and gizmos really more effective and practical than a New England Firearms break-open single shot that you can buy at pawn shops all day long for $100? Is it??

    Again, I am just wanting to hear your thoughts and musings on armed citizen self defense vs 'tactical.' are they different? are they the same? are they similar or on completely different planes of reality?

    What say you?
    That is the great thing about training and equipment these days ,you can chose whatever works best for you .The tacrical and self defence mindset training and equipment can be intertwined and combined to make it work for the individual.The important part of the equation is that you make the decisions ,come up with a plan and train on that plan.
    The easy way is always mined.

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    Changes nothing I said.



    No spell-checker with Tapatalk, sorry.
    You are aware it is possible to hide weapons around the house in lock boxes right? Also, if a weapon is locked up, why unload it?? Is it going to shoot itself without me pulling the trigger?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  9. #53
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    Great post. When it comes to limited funds, it's smart to evaluate "how much gun is enough" and "what's over the top"? At the same time, when it comes to protecting my family I am saving for the highest reputation firearms and training... To a reasonable budget. In that case I don't mind going over the top a bit, it's my money and I'll splurge if I want.

  10. #54
    Member Array RC12's Avatar
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    Our needs/wants evolve with time. Police were set with .38s and old pump shotguns, then eventually 9mm's and pistol caliber carbines. Now most are decked out with high cap 40 and M4s. All the changes were made to accommodate an increased threat. As a civilian, my needs aren't the same as police, but the people who could attack me someday, are the same people the police encounter daily.

    Being outgunned is a chance I take anytime I leave my home, with that in mind I want all of the advantage I can get in my favor. Sure a trusty Marlin lever gun is an excellent choice, if that's what you have. The key is getting good enough to take care of business in various scenarios. An AR variant affords a novice a better chance, though personally a 556 is my last resort indoors. lol.

    For what its worth... I'd rather take my chances against a thug armed with AK than an old timer holding a double barrel break open who has duck hunted for the past 40 years.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC12 View Post
    Our needs/wants evolve with time. Police were set with .38s and old pump shotguns, then eventually 9mm's and pistol caliber carbines. Now most are decked out with high cap 40 and M4s. All the changes were made to accommodate an increased threat. As a civilian, my needs aren't the same as police, but the people who could attack me someday, are the same people the police encounter daily.

    Being outgunned is a chance I take anytime I leave my home, with that in mind I want all of the advantage I can get in my favor. Sure a trusty Marlin lever gun is an excellent choice, if that's what you have. The key is getting good enough to take care of business in various scenarios. An AR variant affords a novice a better chance, though personally a 556 is my last resort indoors. lol.

    For what its worth... I'd rather take my chances against a thug armed with AK than an old timer holding a double barrel break open who has duck hunted for the past 40 years.

    Where is the increased threat? I'm that old timer with the double barrel, and the .38, and I've done just fine. If your just as confident and skilled with your A/K as I am with my choices were both just fine. While choice of weapon is an important point... That weapon is limited to the skill set of the man/woman. The old adage.. " be ware of the man who own's just one gun... He probably knows how to use it" translates just fine to men and woman with older styled guns.

  12. #56
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    I have decided that I will train and shoot with .38/.357's and my M1 carbines, becasue I can reload the ammo and shoot cheaper, and therefore practice more.

    For it is practice that makes me tactical and not equipment, and when funds are tight (which is now) I will take as much training as I can get. If I cannot afford formal training I will hit the range as much as I can.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    A few thoughts:
    Soldiers and many police perform small unit tactics. Civilians in a self defence situation do not. This is the key motivater behind weapon choice.

    Whereas you leave uatended firearms around your home, if a soldier did this around the barracks he would be court-martled.

    I'm of the firm opinion that leaving guns laying around, even if hidden, is grose negligence and should never ever be don. The firearm should either be on your person or unloaded and locked away.



    No spell-checker with Tapatalk, sorry.

    Oh right....."Excuse me Home Invader, I need to appropriately respond to your armed invasion. So before you torture me and kill my family, would you be so kind as to hold on for one second while I walk to the other side of the house and unlock my safe to get to my shotgun."

  14. #58
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    Our house isn't an Army barracks and no one is going to court-matial us so we believe in the expediency of cached but accessable firearms available for our convenience. We're unconcerned if someone else thinks it's gross negligence.
    OD* likes this.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  15. #59
    Member Array ArmedPreacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Our house isn't an Army barracks and no one is going to court-matial us so we believe in the expediency of cached but accessable firearms available for our convenience. We're unconcerned if someone else thinks it's gross negligence.
    Absolutely. I respect the military code when it comes to the military. I am not in the military. I have a responsibility to secure my children and my wife above securing my weapon. I'm not saying to leave the mossberg on the coffee table loaded with 7+1 but when bad guy comes calling I'm not gonna be found with just the remote in my hand. It's negligence to do anything other than keep your family safe in their own home.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmedPreacher View Post
    Oh right....."Excuse me Home Invader, I need to appropriately respond to your armed invasion. So before you torture me and kill my family, would you be so kind as to hold on for one second while I walk to the other side of the house and unlock my safe to get to my shotgun."
    That's another reason not to play silly games by hiding guns like Easter eggs around your house. Imo just carry it




    No spell-check with Tapatalk, sorry.

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