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About LinkBacksHawkeye, is that all you got? Dude.
This is a discussion on Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hawkeye, is that all you got? Dude....
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Hawkeye, is that all you got? Dude.
Savage Heartland
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Ya know the cool thing, in threads like these (as long as people can check their ego, not waffles) we get to hear peoples reasons for why they do what they do. To me, that is invaluable.
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I am as nostalgic as the next guy, 1911's................
OK, I got that out of the way. There is nothing a 1911 does that my Glock will not do just as well or better. I can buy a box stock Glock and it is reliable out of the box, how may 1911's get replacement parts to be reliable? I have owned 1911's for years and found that a 357 Mag revolver or a 40/357 Glock a better choice FOR ME. I carry Glock's because they work like the EverReady bunny, and I don't care if they get beat up, they are tools.
I do not like plastic revolvers, just steel.
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Theodore Roosevelt
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agreed!Originally Posted by smolck
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I agree as well. This is epic. The anti-caliber wars where good and evil are out on the table.
Regarding 1911's as heirlooms, you are correct, they do become just that but they're functional heirlooms. Normally heirlooms don't come cheap and they're well made, grandad's Barlow being the exception. There are reasons for this, value based on quality. Quality is subjective but as it boils down, a 1911 just keeps on ticking. A 1911 can be common and functional or handsome and functional. Either way, they can be carried for 30, 40, 50 years and they keep running. I like M&P's but I bet they can't pass that test.
Savage Heartland
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I don't own a 1911, however I do want one. I do however have a couple of glocks. I won't knock the 1911 platform as I have zero hands on experience with it. For me though, the glock is preferred for carry and combat because I couldn't car lead about scratching it, dropping it, etc. I cut the grip on my gen 4 g17 down to accept g19 mags using a hacksaw and some sandpaper. It is now a better EDC gun than it was with the longer grip, and it couldn't be any uglier than it was before the chop, so no harm was done. It might be harder to sell now, but I don't sell guns anyway.
Again I do want a quality 1911, as I think they are awesome in many ways. I just can't see myself carrying one much with as perfect as the ugly plastic guns are for day in, day out reliability.
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Gosh, thanks guys. I was all stoked up to buy a Kimber. Now, it seems like a 1960-70s muscle car. Big and heavy. Brutal power. Indisputable good, classic, timeless, looks. You have to work on all of them from time to time, but driving them is like nothing else. Not a single car made in the last 30 years will be as sought after as the Muscle Cars were. Ever watch Barrett-Jackson? The newer "muscle cars" have lots of plastic, great performance, and decent looks. But they will never be classics. Not to say they don't have following, they do. Heck, I have a 2010 Challenger. But it ain't as much fun as my '68 Charger R/T was in it's day. See my point? I still want that Kimber 1911. But I also like my SR9c. Hope this wasn't too much of a reach to make a point.
I sorta like Gman's take on revolvers actually. Love revolvers best of all but also appreciate the 1911 pistol. I'm willing to take it seriously too. I carried a 1911 for serious social purposes this past weekend on a little security gig. For me it doesn't matter what's in style or what's current conventional wisdom regarding the relative technological differences in a "100 year old design" and the "latest and greatest" plastic.
I'm also like Gman and like Colts better than clones generally thought there are some admittedly very nice clones out there that one could live with. I prefer not to modify, customize, or swap out components on my 1911s so they are left stock except for routine spring maintenance.
Reliability is a primary reason I like the 1911 and any claims otherwise made both by major instructors or frustrated forum members are disregarded as being contrary to personal observations.
I like 1911 triggers and have no issues managing the safety. I can't imagine that the 1911 is difficult to use or has proven to be more prone to the dreaded NDs than some other popular pistols that could be mentioned. I don't like the triggers on any of the plastic guns. I could deal with them but don't have to do so.
I like all-steel construction. I like weight and prefer the 1911s balance. I don't like the top-heavy feel of most plastic guns and their lighter weight isn't appreciated.
My hand is familiar with the pleasing 1911 ergonomics and there's no crying need to adapt to something else.
Love the look of classic 1911s. All plastic fantastic pistols are unappealing, looking more like cordless drills. Folks make fun of Hi-Point pistols' looks but the popular modern favorites have nothing to recommend them over the appearance of a Hi-Point.
Pistol preferences are very subjective but for me life's to short to have to own, shoot, and defend oneself with plastic pistols when there are 1911s and High-Powers available that give up nothing to the "new crop" pistols in actual application. While I believe in handguns for self-defense I also enjoy firearms as a hobby. Range time would be less satisfying if one was required to shoot something for which he has little personal regard.
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
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you make some good points. You said the 1911 is not a beginner's pistol. I hear what you're saying because it has the issues you mentioned, plus its more difficult to take apart and more touchy/finicky in its operation. But when you say its not for beginners, keep in mind that the 1911 was issued to a WHOLE LOT of beginners in the form of young, inexperienced U.S. Military soldiers. Of course, they were able to catch on and able to operate this pistol quite well, even though they were beginners. I guess you could say that everyone is a beginner when they pick up any firearm for the first time. Nobody was born with experience, and every firearm has its unique attributes, so you can't transfer all knowledge from one to the next. Yes, it helps to have a background in shooting, but we all have a lot to learn, and anyone that claims "expert" status better be willing to humble themselves and be willing to learn more!Hey Doodle, I'm your huckleberry!
A 1911 variant, compared to your more modern examples, is NOT a beginner's pistol. The manual-of-arms is more complicated, the SA trigger is more sensitive to rookie ND/AD concerns, it weighs more & holds fewer rounds. But there is a reason why, even in light of all that being absolutely true, that a sizable percentage the fastest, most accurate, most experienced professional competition, LE & military handgunners in the world STILL choose to exercise their freedom & pick the 1911 to put in their holster. Selecting a carry gun is always & in ALL WAYS a compromise. To many shooters, the 1911 represents the intangible perfect balance of all those compromises (feel, caliber, durability, reliability, confidence, split times, felt recoil, ergonomics, etc...) that play into that multi-faceted decision. My Porsche isn't the fastest car in the world, nor is it the cheapest to maintain or repair, nor does it get the best gas mileage. But, to me at least, it represents the best available balance of EVERYTHING that I want a car to do for me. A 1911 means precisely the same thing to a lot of pistoleros. As for your less-than-scientific "lemon poll", you are NOT clueless. But did you factor-in that the more 1911 variants were sold in the world, the more of them would be mentioned in response? Only GLOCK makes GLOCKs. Likewise Beretta & M&P. Dozens upon dozens of companies make or have made 1911 variants. That's a MUCH LARGER statistical sample than is ANY other handgun.
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I like your reasoning... I disagree with you but I like your reasoning.
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I hear what you're saying. As for myself, I was "biased" toward revolvers for quite awhile, especially 15-20 years ago. But I have come to admit that the modern handguns have impeccable reliability, shoot-ability and many advantages over the revolver when used for self defense. (I think the revolver has advantages for other uses, such as the ability to shoot very light loads and still be able to operate, among other things) And yes, the revolver can be extremely fast, potentially faster than just about any pistol.
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As well you should be. Go get it, they are amazing, plain and simple.
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I haven't owned a Kimber but I don't hear good things about their quality control.
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My Kimber runs just fine, and I ain't a bit afraid to carry it. I often do. Of course, when you drop a few bucks and wait a few months for a horsehide and shark Versa Max, you are obligated to carry it. I like my 1911. And I trust it.
Just like I trust my SIGs, Glocks, and M&Ps. If I'm a purist, it's only because I will not own a gun that has given me any reason to doubt it.
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celebrate diversity.......
Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.
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