Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there.

Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there.

This is a discussion on Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So which is better... Well for me the XD or the M&P or even a glock (even though they are ugly as sin)... The operative ...

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Thread: Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there.

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there.

    So which is better... Well for me the XD or the M&P or even a glock (even though they are ugly as sin)... The operative word here is for me. Don't get me wrong... 1911's are absolutely beautiful handguns with a ton of history but I base my self defense choices on function not nostalgia... And for a pistol that large and heavy I'll have more than 8+1 thank you.

    If you like your 1911 and it works well... Awesome... I'm glad you have a great gun that works for you.. Really I mean that.

    Let's look at this from the point of view of a perspective first handgun buyer coming on to DC asking what's a good reliable affordable and concealable pistol? The most common response would probably be the Glock 19...and we all know why right? I would bet practically no one would suggest the 1911... and after a bit of time here I think I know why.

    First: The 1911 market is like a minefield, with everyone and their brother making 1911's of different qualities and price points that don't necessarily follow one another... yes Kimber I'm talking about you. Once someone asks which 1911 to buy everyone that has one that works speaks up.. My Kimber works great... My philippino wonder works great... My Ruger works great... My SA works great... Only buy the Colt... Even the Taurus pt1911 would get a vote or two, and the layperson can't see the forest (err quality 1911's) for the trees.

    Second: reliability... This may sting and if you have a good one refer to the second statement in my post. Reliability with 1911's occurs when a lot of metal parts are machined to very tight tolerances and sometimes requiring hand fitting... This requires more labor cost which in turn means higher msrp... But sometimes even then the manufacturer is known to not get it right... Talking to you again Kimber. It's my humble opinion that when major instructors put out videos betting full refunds that any 1911 can't complete a course without hiccup... That's a bad thing!

    Subcompact 1911s Just don't work well.... - YouTube

    I also recently posted a thread asking people to tell me about their out of the box lemons... 1911's had quite a showing.

    Tell me about your out of the box lemons

    15 times the 1911 made the list of slightly over 50 entries... Doesn't prove to much as I would have hoped to get a larger sample but oh well. Almost a third of the entries including 2 Colts, 2 SA's and 3 Kimbers.

    Further I can remember reading a few recent "I got a new 1911" threads and the common theme between them all was the parts that would get changed out of the box... From the plastic main spring housing on the colt to the mim parts on the Kimber, it blows me away.

    I will say the sr1911 seems to do pretty well.

    So maybe one day when I have 700 dollars lying around and I don't have anything else to buy on my list I would own a Sr1911 I think... It is pretty and 1911's are fun to shoot but I personally would not carry it, simply because there are smaller lighter higher capacity choices in my arsenal.

    I look forward to your thoughts especially if you disagree with me, I would ask you to remember this is only my opinion and to refrain from simply dismissing me as clueless.
    joker1, sensei2, msgt/ret and 4 others like this.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Hey Doodle, I'm your huckleberry!
    A 1911 variant, compared to your more modern examples, is NOT a beginner's pistol. The manual-of-arms is more complicated, the SA trigger is more sensitive to rookie ND/AD concerns, it weighs more & holds fewer rounds. But there is a reason why, even in light of all that being absolutely true, that a sizable percentage the fastest, most accurate, most experienced professional competition, LE & military handgunners in the world STILL choose to exercise their freedom & pick the 1911 to put in their holster. Selecting a carry gun is always & in ALL WAYS a compromise. To many shooters, the 1911 represents the intangible perfect balance of all those compromises (feel, caliber, durability, reliability, confidence, split times, felt recoil, ergonomics, etc...) that play into that multi-faceted decision. My Porsche isn't the fastest car in the world, nor is it the cheapest to maintain or repair, nor does it get the best gas mileage. But, to me at least, it represents the best available balance of EVERYTHING that I want a car to do for me. A 1911 means precisely the same thing to a lot of pistoleros. As for your less-than-scientific "lemon poll", you are NOT clueless. But did you factor-in that the more 1911 variants were sold in the world, the more of them would be mentioned in response? Only GLOCK makes GLOCKs. Likewise Beretta & M&P. Dozens upon dozens of companies make or have made 1911 variants. That's a MUCH LARGER statistical sample than is ANY other handgun.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Hey Doodle, I'm your huckleberry!
    A 1911 variant, compared to your more modern examples, is NOT a beginner's pistol. The manual-of-arms is more complicated, the SA trigger is more sensitive to rookie ND/AD concerns, it weighs more & holds fewer rounds. But there is a reason why, even in light of all that being absolutely true, that a sizable percentage the fastest, most accurate, most experienced professional competition, LE & military handgunners in the world STILL choose to exercise their freedom & pick the 1911 to put in their holster. Selecting a carry gun is always & in ALL WAYS a compromise. To many shooters, the 1911 represents the intangible perfect balance of all those compromises (feel, caliber, durability, reliability, confidence, split times, felt recoil, ergonomics, etc...) that play into that multi-faceted decision. My Porsche isn't the fastest car in the world, nor is it the cheapest to maintain or repair, nor does it get the best gas mileage. But, to me at least, it represents the best available balance of EVERYTHING that I want a car to do for me. A 1911 means precisely the same thing to a lot of pistoleros. As for your less-than-scientific "lemon poll", you are NOT clueless. But did you factor-in that the more 1911 variants were sold in the world, the more of them would be mentioned in response? Only GLOCK makes GLOCKs. Likewise Beretta & M&P. Dozens upon dozens of companies make or have made 1911 variants. That's a MUCH LARGER statistical sample than is ANY other handgun.
    I thought about that and I do wonder how many of the current firearms sold/carried are 1911's...anyone have a clue?

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    IBTL :)

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    IBTL :)
    Yea of little faith that dc members can be civilized when discussing the pros cons of carry guns

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    Oh my. I had to get a beer for this. With that said, let me also say that I'm old school and I'm a 1911 fan. I've got 4 and hope for more. And I've never had an issue with any of them; Colt, Para and 2 home builds. So it's easy enough to read what we read and pick out what we want to on reviews and forums. I've just never been inclined to post "hey, today my world is good and my 1911's all work well". So there's Kimber bashers and Glock bashers and they all have their filters.....that's life.

    I'll also say that Tupperware guns have their place and I'm kind of starting to like the notion. I own a farm and aside from the weight benefit, there's the fact that I can bump a plastic gun around a fair amount without knowing and maybe without caring. Proper tool for the proper job kind of thing.

    So 100 years from, both styles will probably still be around.....plus something new. But in the case of the 1911's, many of today's guns will still be around. I don't think the same will hold true for the plastic ones. There'll be new plastic ones, but probably not the one you carried today. Or the one I carried today for that matter. But that has nothing to do with round count over time. I shoot the 1911's quite a lot and they're made to handle it. It's just that plastic is plastic, steel is steel.
    Savage Heartland

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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    It's really a moot point. Let your experience and expertise be your guide. However, I don't buy clones of anything. I want the real deal, and there is only one.

    But as far as choice, I can do just as well with a good six shooter as most people can with any high speed- low drag piece you want to put in their hand. I don't give a double damn what it is. You can either run the piece, or your mouth.

    IMO, both the 1911 and Glock style guns are professional pieces. I believe 90% of the population would be better off with a revolver, but they are so blinded by the hype and hypnotized with ignorance they can't see it.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    Yea of little faith that dc members can be civilized when discussing the pros cons of carry guns
    Of course we can be civilized. (As long as those who subsequently join-in can keep their big-boy britches pulled-up! )
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    Oh my. I had to get a beer for this. With that said, let me also say that I'm old school and I'm a 1911 fan. I've got 4 and hope for more. And I've never had an issue with any of them; Colt, Para and 2 home builds. So it's easy enough to read what we read and pick out what we want to on reviews and forums. I've just never been inclined to post "hey, today my world is good and my 1911's all work well". So there's Kimber bashers and Glock bashers and they all have their filters.....that's life.

    I'll also say that Tupperware guns have their place and I'm kind of starting to like the notion. I own a farm and aside from the weight benefit, there's the fact that I can bump a plastic gun around a fair amount without knowing and maybe without caring. Proper tool for the proper job kind of thing.

    So 100 years from, both styles will probably still be around.....plus something new. But in the case of the 1911's, many of today's guns will still be around. I don't think the same will hold true for the plastic ones. There'll be new plastic ones, but probably not the one you carried today.
    fair enough... Although plastic doesn't rust, it sure is not biodegradable so.. Idk maybe in a hundred years you will see Glocks at least... There's sure enough of them around now for a decent few to make it.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodle View Post
    fair enough... Although plastic doesn't rust, it sure is not biodegradable so.. Idk maybe in a hundred years you will see Glocks at least... There's sure enough of them around now for a decent few to make it.
    Everything is (eventually) "biodegradable" if given enough time. But GLOCKS won't be family heirlooms like a fine 1911. My (grown) grandkids will just find my G19 in the map pocket of my driver's door when they send my antique Toyota pickup to the crusher.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Everything is (eventually) "biodegradable" if given enough time. But GLOCKS won't be family heirlooms like a fine 1911. My (grown) grandkids will just find my G19 in the map pocket of my driver's door when they send my antique Toyota pickup to the crusher.
    I think you may have hit a legitimate point here where the 1911 excels and any modern polymer falls flat... 1911's are beautiful and customizable to become an heirloom, mind you with an heirloom price tag. The polymers are generally all alike.

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    Member Array Jesters Dead's Avatar
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    James Yeager seems to agree - 1911s suck. I'm not going to go that far. I happen to like my Ruger 1911 and sometimes carry it. I find, more often than not, I'm carrying my CZ 75 Compact as opposed to the 1911.

    As far as plastic guns being better than 1911s in an SD scenario - they are. They have fewer parts, which means fewer parts that will fail. They have the option of no external safeties, which gives the user one less thing to worry about during a SHTF situation. They also are prone to jam less and fail less than 1911s - especially the compact 1911s, just add Rob Pincus.

    The bottom line is that your SD gun is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. In that role, the Glocks and S&W M&Ps shine. The 1911 is a thing of beauty. I will still carry mine. And yes, I will eventually purchase a Glock 19 or S&W M&P or Caracal to replace it in the SD role. It just makes sense.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Have to agree. I bought my first Tactical Tupperware (G19) to keep in my truck so, if my Toyota were stolen, the thief wouldn't get a Cracker Jack surprise prize of a custom BHP, S&W revolver or 1911. Then I found out that every bad thing I knew about GLOCKs was wrong & all the good stuff I had disbelieved was...RIGHT! (dang it!)

    They are truly the AK47 of handguns. But I STILL THINK they're as ugly as fat ankles.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array Doodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Have to agree. I bought my first Tactical Tupperware (G19) to keep in my truck so, if my Toyota were stolen, the thief wouldn't get a Cracker Jack surprise prize of a custom BHP, S&W revolver or 1911. Then I found out that every bad thing I knew about GLOCKs was wrong & all the good stuff I had disbelieved was...RIGHT! (dang it!)

    They are truly the AK47 of handguns. But I STILL THINK they're as ugly as fat ankles.
    m&ps aren't so ugly
    GrandZJ likes this.

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    Jester....you can't prove the jam less notion to me. My Colt has never jammed and I've had it about 25 years. Let me say it again; never. The Para, no jams in 2 years. The long gone Kahr jammed on day one. The Shield, and I love it, jammed once but that was ammo. My point is, you can't peanut butter that opinion and call it right. At my house, you're wrong. Moving parts? OK, you win.
    Last edited by svgheartland; October 1st, 2012 at 09:39 PM.
    Savage Heartland

    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?

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