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Plastic fantastic vs the 1911...yep I'm going there.

9K views 75 replies 33 participants last post by  nightsonge 
#1 ·
So which is better... Well for me the XD or the M&P or even a glock (even though they are ugly as sin)... The operative word here is for me. Don't get me wrong... 1911's are absolutely beautiful handguns with a ton of history but I base my self defense choices on function not nostalgia... And for a pistol that large and heavy I'll have more than 8+1 thank you.

If you like your 1911 and it works well... Awesome... I'm glad you have a great gun that works for you.. Really I mean that.

Let's look at this from the point of view of a perspective first handgun buyer coming on to DC asking what's a good reliable affordable and concealable pistol? The most common response would probably be the Glock 19...and we all know why right? I would bet practically no one would suggest the 1911... and after a bit of time here I think I know why.

First: The 1911 market is like a minefield, with everyone and their brother making 1911's of different qualities and price points that don't necessarily follow one another... yes Kimber I'm talking about you. Once someone asks which 1911 to buy everyone that has one that works speaks up.. My Kimber works great... My philippino wonder works great... My Ruger works great... My SA works great... Only buy the Colt... Even the Taurus pt1911 would get a vote or two, and the layperson can't see the forest (err quality 1911's) for the trees.

Second: reliability... This may sting and if you have a good one refer to the second statement in my post. Reliability with 1911's occurs when a lot of metal parts are machined to very tight tolerances and sometimes requiring hand fitting... This requires more labor cost which in turn means higher msrp... But sometimes even then the manufacturer is known to not get it right... Talking to you again Kimber. It's my humble opinion that when major instructors put out videos betting full refunds that any 1911 can't complete a course without hiccup... That's a bad thing!

Subcompact 1911s Just don't work well.... - YouTube

I also recently posted a thread asking people to tell me about their out of the box lemons... 1911's had quite a showing.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...148654-tell-me-about-your-out-box-lemons.html

15 times the 1911 made the list of slightly over 50 entries... Doesn't prove to much as I would have hoped to get a larger sample but oh well. Almost a third of the entries including 2 Colts, 2 SA's and 3 Kimbers.

Further I can remember reading a few recent "I got a new 1911" threads and the common theme between them all was the parts that would get changed out of the box... From the plastic main spring housing on the colt to the mim parts on the Kimber, it blows me away.

I will say the sr1911 seems to do pretty well.

So maybe one day when I have 700 dollars lying around and I don't have anything else to buy on my list I would own a Sr1911 I think... It is pretty and 1911's are fun to shoot but I personally would not carry it, simply because there are smaller lighter higher capacity choices in my arsenal.

I look forward to your thoughts especially if you disagree with me, I would ask you to remember this is only my opinion and to refrain from simply dismissing me as clueless.
 
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#2 ·
Hey Doodle, I'm your huckleberry! :biggrin2:
A 1911 variant, compared to your more modern examples, is NOT a beginner's pistol. The manual-of-arms is more complicated, the SA trigger is more sensitive to rookie ND/AD concerns, it weighs more & holds fewer rounds. But there is a reason why, even in light of all that being absolutely true, that a sizable percentage the fastest, most accurate, most experienced professional competition, LE & military handgunners in the world STILL choose to exercise their freedom & pick the 1911 to put in their holster. Selecting a carry gun is always & in ALL WAYS a compromise. To many shooters, the 1911 represents the intangible perfect balance of all those compromises (feel, caliber, durability, reliability, confidence, split times, felt recoil, ergonomics, etc...) that play into that multi-faceted decision. My Porsche isn't the fastest car in the world, nor is it the cheapest to maintain or repair, nor does it get the best gas mileage. But, to me at least, it represents the best available balance of EVERYTHING that I want a car to do for me. A 1911 means precisely the same thing to a lot of pistoleros. As for your less-than-scientific "lemon poll", you are NOT clueless. But did you factor-in that the more 1911 variants were sold in the world, the more of them would be mentioned in response? Only GLOCK makes GLOCKs. Likewise Beretta & M&P. Dozens upon dozens of companies make or have made 1911 variants. That's a MUCH LARGER statistical sample than is ANY other handgun.
 
#3 ·
I thought about that and I do wonder how many of the current firearms sold/carried are 1911's...anyone have a clue?
 
#5 ·
Yea of little faith that dc members can be civilized when discussing the pros cons of carry guns:rolleyes:
 
#6 ·
Oh my. I had to get a beer for this. With that said, let me also say that I'm old school and I'm a 1911 fan. I've got 4 and hope for more. And I've never had an issue with any of them; Colt, Para and 2 home builds. So it's easy enough to read what we read and pick out what we want to on reviews and forums. I've just never been inclined to post "hey, today my world is good and my 1911's all work well". So there's Kimber bashers and Glock bashers and they all have their filters.....that's life.

I'll also say that Tupperware guns have their place and I'm kind of starting to like the notion. I own a farm and aside from the weight benefit, there's the fact that I can bump a plastic gun around a fair amount without knowing and maybe without caring. Proper tool for the proper job kind of thing.

So 100 years from, both styles will probably still be around.....plus something new. But in the case of the 1911's, many of today's guns will still be around. I don't think the same will hold true for the plastic ones. There'll be new plastic ones, but probably not the one you carried today. Or the one I carried today for that matter. But that has nothing to do with round count over time. I shoot the 1911's quite a lot and they're made to handle it. It's just that plastic is plastic, steel is steel.
 
#9 ·
Oh my. I had to get a beer for this. With that said, let me also say that I'm old school and I'm a 1911 fan. I've got 4 and hope for more. And I've never had an issue with any of them; Colt, Para and 2 home builds. So it's easy enough to read what we read and pick out what we want to on reviews and forums. I've just never been inclined to post "hey, today my world is good and my 1911's all work well". So there's Kimber bashers and Glock bashers and they all have their filters.....that's life.

I'll also say that Tupperware guns have their place and I'm kind of starting to like the notion. I own a farm and aside from the weight benefit, there's the fact that I can bump a plastic gun around a fair amount without knowing and maybe without caring. Proper tool for the proper job kind of thing.

So 100 years from, both styles will probably still be around.....plus something new. But in the case of the 1911's, many of today's guns will still be around. I don't think the same will hold true for the plastic ones. There'll be new plastic ones, but probably not the one you carried today.
fair enough... Although plastic doesn't rust, it sure is not biodegradable so.. Idk maybe in a hundred years you will see Glocks at least... There's sure enough of them around now for a decent few to make it.
 
#7 ·
It's really a moot point. Let your experience and expertise be your guide. However, I don't buy clones of anything. I want the real deal, and there is only one.

But as far as choice, I can do just as well with a good six shooter as most people can with any high speed- low drag piece you want to put in their hand. I don't give a double damn what it is. You can either run the piece, or your mouth.

IMO, both the 1911 and Glock style guns are professional pieces. I believe 90% of the population would be better off with a revolver, but they are so blinded by the hype and hypnotized with ignorance they can't see it.
 
#41 ·
I hear what you're saying. As for myself, I was "biased" toward revolvers for quite awhile, especially 15-20 years ago. But I have come to admit that the modern handguns have impeccable reliability, shoot-ability and many advantages over the revolver when used for self defense. (I think the revolver has advantages for other uses, such as the ability to shoot very light loads and still be able to operate, among other things) And yes, the revolver can be extremely fast, potentially faster than just about any pistol.
 
#12 ·
James Yeager seems to agree - 1911s suck. I'm not going to go that far. I happen to like my Ruger 1911 and sometimes carry it. I find, more often than not, I'm carrying my CZ 75 Compact as opposed to the 1911.

As far as plastic guns being better than 1911s in an SD scenario - they are. They have fewer parts, which means fewer parts that will fail. They have the option of no external safeties, which gives the user one less thing to worry about during a SHTF situation. They also are prone to jam less and fail less than 1911s - especially the compact 1911s, just add Rob Pincus.

The bottom line is that your SD gun is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. In that role, the Glocks and S&W M&Ps shine. The 1911 is a thing of beauty. I will still carry mine. And yes, I will eventually purchase a Glock 19 or S&W M&P or Caracal to replace it in the SD role. It just makes sense.
 
#13 ·
Have to agree. I bought my first Tactical Tupperware (G19) to keep in my truck so, if my Toyota were stolen, the thief wouldn't get a Cracker Jack surprise prize of a custom BHP, S&W revolver or 1911. Then I found out that every bad thing I knew about GLOCKs was wrong & all the good stuff I had disbelieved was...RIGHT! (dang it!)

They are truly the AK47 of handguns. But I STILL THINK they're as ugly as fat ankles.
 
#14 ·
m&ps aren't so ugly:smile:
 
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#15 · (Edited)
Jester....you can't prove the jam less notion to me. My Colt has never jammed and I've had it about 25 years. Let me say it again; never. The Para, no jams in 2 years. The long gone Kahr jammed on day one. The Shield, and I love it, jammed once but that was ammo. My point is, you can't peanut butter that opinion and call it right. At my house, you're wrong. Moving parts? OK, you win.
 
#18 ·
Jester....you can't prove the jamb less notion to me. My Colt has never jammed and I've had it about 25 years. Let me say it again; never. The Para, no jams in 2 years. The long gone Kahr jammed on day one. The Shield, and I love it, jammed once but that was ammo. My point is, you can't peanut butter that opinion and call it right. At my house, you're wrong. Moving parts? OK, you win.
legitimately kahrs had quite a showing on my lemon list as well... Funny though if inherent reliability of any platform is questioned the ones you hear from are the ones that have never had an issue and wish to defend the platform. You have a 25+ year old colt... It was probably built with a bit more attention to detail compared to today's mass produced versions of various makes... Interstingly enough even colt is putting plastic parts in their 1911's these days. My point is not that there is no such thing as a reliable 1911, my point is if you don't own one currently and your ready to invest a decent chunk of money to have a completely reliable 1911 annnd you expect it to perform out of the box without issue.... By a glock or an m&p first. That way if you are unlucky in 1911's like some are well your cheaper polymer gun will work well for you while you get the 1911 debugged.
 
#17 ·
I used to think Glocks were ugly as all get out...but now, I have the face when I look at a Glock 19 as I do when I get out of my CISCO class right after the nursing class next door is over and I'm walking down the hallway :danceban:

I'm like Thunder71 though, I don't discriminate as long as it goes boom! (Hey I still have standards though)
 
#21 ·
looks cool but I would personally pass.
 
#20 ·
I have an M&P, I have 1911's (Kimber, Rock Island, Para, Citadel), and I have a revolver. They all serve a purpose. Why do I chose the 1911 as my most often carried gun? Simple, I want to. I like all guns (ok, except High Points) and have no issue with any of them. Carry what you like, the rest is just crap for people to talk about in chat forums.

All of the 1911's I currently own go bang when you pull the trigger, so do all my plastic guns and my revolver. So for me the only difference is capacity and weight. 7+1 or 8+1 in my 1911 is still more than my revolver, and the 12+1 in my M&P compact doesn't seem all that more substantial than the others.

Will I regret my choices some day? Maybe. But I believe I am well prepared for that "oh no" situation.

I like the wise words of the original Obi-Wan Kenobi from Return of the Jedi, he said "you are going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view". I agree.
 
#22 ·
nice quote... I like it... Is your avatar your dog by the way?
 
#25 ·
Doodle, you are such a troublemaker!

For those who think a Glock is ugly, look down its business end. That's ugly!
 
#26 ·
Another snippit I'll add is a video by Clint Smith on youtube about CCW. He says "I don't ask myself whether or not I'd carry this or that gun, I ask myself, if I was going to carry that gun what's the best way to fight with it. Or if I was going to carry that gun what is the best way to fight with it.". (ok, that's paraphrased, but pretty close).
 
#29 ·
another cool quote err paraphrase.
 
#30 ·
For me it is 1911s or classic revolvers, I have tried the plastic guns and just do not like how they feel in the hand and have never seen the need for a gun holding a half of a box of ammo. I do agree a 1911 is not for the novice as it takes time and practice to master. I could not afford to buy my first 1911 outright so I did like the Johnny Cash song; I built it “One Piece at a time”, that taught my a lot about 1911s and I still have it.

My first 1911 built from parts as I could afford them. Firearm Gun Trigger Gun accessory Gun barrel
 
#50 ·
For me it is 1911s or classic revolvers, I have tried the plastic guns and just do not like how they feel in the hand and have never seen the need for a gun holding a half of a box of ammo. I do agree a 1911 is not for the novice as it takes time and practice to master. I could not afford to buy my first 1911 outright so I did like the Johnny Cash song; I built it “One Piece at a time”, that taught my a lot about 1911s and I still have it.

My first 1911 built from parts as I could afford them. View attachment 63206
You must be a relative of Dr Frankenstein
 
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#32 ·
Ya know the cool thing, in threads like these (as long as people can check their ego, not waffles) we get to hear peoples reasons for why they do what they do. To me, that is invaluable.
 
#33 ·
I am as nostalgic as the next guy, 1911's................:schild42:


OK, I got that out of the way. There is nothing a 1911 does that my Glock will not do just as well or better. I can buy a box stock Glock and it is reliable out of the box, how may 1911's get replacement parts to be reliable? I have owned 1911's for years and found that a 357 Mag revolver or a 40/357 Glock a better choice FOR ME. I carry Glock's because they work like the EverReady bunny, and I don't care if they get beat up, they are tools.

I do not like plastic revolvers, just steel.
 
#35 ·
I agree as well. This is epic. The anti-caliber wars where good and evil are out on the table.

Regarding 1911's as heirlooms, you are correct, they do become just that but they're functional heirlooms. Normally heirlooms don't come cheap and they're well made, grandad's Barlow being the exception. There are reasons for this, value based on quality. Quality is subjective but as it boils down, a 1911 just keeps on ticking. A 1911 can be common and functional or handsome and functional. Either way, they can be carried for 30, 40, 50 years and they keep running. I like M&P's but I bet they can't pass that test.
 
#36 ·
I don't own a 1911, however I do want one. I do however have a couple of glocks. I won't knock the 1911 platform as I have zero hands on experience with it. For me though, the glock is preferred for carry and combat because I couldn't car lead about scratching it, dropping it, etc. I cut the grip on my gen 4 g17 down to accept g19 mags using a hacksaw and some sandpaper. It is now a better EDC gun than it was with the longer grip, and it couldn't be any uglier than it was before the chop, so no harm was done. It might be harder to sell now, but I don't sell guns anyway.

Again I do want a quality 1911, as I think they are awesome in many ways. I just can't see myself carrying one much with as perfect as the ugly plastic guns are for day in, day out reliability.

sent via iCarry
 
#37 ·
1911s

Gosh, thanks guys. I was all stoked up to buy a Kimber. Now, it seems like a 1960-70s muscle car. Big and heavy. Brutal power. Indisputable good, classic, timeless, looks. You have to work on all of them from time to time, but driving them is like nothing else. Not a single car made in the last 30 years will be as sought after as the Muscle Cars were. Ever watch Barrett-Jackson? The newer "muscle cars" have lots of plastic, great performance, and decent looks. But they will never be classics. Not to say they don't have following, they do. Heck, I have a 2010 Challenger. But it ain't as much fun as my '68 Charger R/T was in it's day. See my point? I still want that Kimber 1911. But I also like my SR9c. Hope this wasn't too much of a reach to make a point.
 
#38 ·
I sorta like Gman's take on revolvers actually. Love revolvers best of all but also appreciate the 1911 pistol. I'm willing to take it seriously too. I carried a 1911 for serious social purposes this past weekend on a little security gig. For me it doesn't matter what's in style or what's current conventional wisdom regarding the relative technological differences in a "100 year old design" and the "latest and greatest" plastic.

I'm also like Gman and like Colts better than clones generally thought there are some admittedly very nice clones out there that one could live with. I prefer not to modify, customize, or swap out components on my 1911s so they are left stock except for routine spring maintenance.

Reliability is a primary reason I like the 1911 and any claims otherwise made both by major instructors or frustrated forum members are disregarded as being contrary to personal observations.

I like 1911 triggers and have no issues managing the safety. I can't imagine that the 1911 is difficult to use or has proven to be more prone to the dreaded NDs than some other popular pistols that could be mentioned. I don't like the triggers on any of the plastic guns. I could deal with them but don't have to do so.

I like all-steel construction. I like weight and prefer the 1911s balance. I don't like the top-heavy feel of most plastic guns and their lighter weight isn't appreciated.

My hand is familiar with the pleasing 1911 ergonomics and there's no crying need to adapt to something else.

Love the look of classic 1911s. All plastic fantastic pistols are unappealing, looking more like cordless drills. Folks make fun of Hi-Point pistols' looks but the popular modern favorites have nothing to recommend them over the appearance of a Hi-Point.

Pistol preferences are very subjective but for me life's to short to have to own, shoot, and defend oneself with plastic pistols when there are 1911s and High-Powers available that give up nothing to the "new crop" pistols in actual application. While I believe in handguns for self-defense I also enjoy firearms as a hobby. Range time would be less satisfying if one was required to shoot something for which he has little personal regard.
 
#40 ·
I like your reasoning... I disagree with you but I like your reasoning.
 
#44 ·
My Kimber runs just fine, and I ain't a bit afraid to carry it. I often do. Of course, when you drop a few bucks and wait a few months for a horsehide and shark Versa Max, you are obligated to carry it. I like my 1911. And I trust it.

Just like I trust my SIGs, Glocks, and M&Ps. If I'm a purist, it's only because I will not own a gun that has given me any reason to doubt it.
 
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