Glock gen 4 experiences - especially problems with the 9mm series.... - Page 2

Glock gen 4 experiences - especially problems with the 9mm series....

This is a discussion on Glock gen 4 experiences - especially problems with the 9mm series.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I wasn't being rhetorical, but rather asking a legitimate question. Anyone care to run their PF9 through a three-day, fifteen-hundred round ...

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Thread: Glock gen 4 experiences - especially problems with the 9mm series....

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I wasn't being rhetorical, but rather asking a legitimate question. Anyone care to run their PF9 through a three-day, fifteen-hundred round fighting course?
    I guess that depends if we consider a PF9 to be the same class of gun as a Glock, Sig, H&K, XD, XDm, etc.

    There are videos of a Para 1911, shot by Todd Jarrett, as fast as he could, for 1000 rounds without stopping to clean or lube. The gun got so hot he could hardly hold it and there was not one failure of any kind.

    The point is, of mainstream, full/mid size guns comparable to G19s and G17s, all should easily be able to run 1000-1500 rounds without cleaning.

    But the thread is not about how many rounds a Glock can run without cleaning, it's about what experiences gen 4 owners have had especially with regard to brass to the face.

    It seems if a gen 4 is gonna have the problem, it occurs around the 1000-2000 round count.
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  2. #17
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    Lightbulb

    Just curious, of that 70%, did you happen to notice how many were gen 4 G19/17s?
    About 10% were Gen 4's. The ratio of G19 to G17 is about 60/40 with 95% of the problems being with the Gen 4's. The biggest problems I see with the older Glocks is the people who work on them.

    I know DR saw a Sig run through thousands and thousands of rounds without a stoppage.
    I've done some T&E and Fatigue & Failure Rate studies over the years. After the famous catastrophic failure of the M92 (as the saying goes: "You're not a Seal until you eat Italian steel" ) I helped test the Sig as an interim replacement for the Beretta.

    The Sig went through 13,000+ rounds of 9mm NATO Ball (without cleaning or lube) before it broke. And what broke was the de-cocker, but the gun still fired. THAT was impressive to say the least.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I wasn't being rhetorical, but rather asking a legitimate question. Anyone care to run their PF9 through a three-day, fifteen-hundred round fighting course?

    Honestly the Keltec PF9 is not a so called Fighting or Combat gun, it is more for personal self defense and it does well for what it was designed and made for. I am sure that there may be some good broken in Keltec PF9's that may do well in a 3 day 1500 round fighting course with the correct person using it. As someone else might have mentioned, 1/2 of it is the person shooting the gun the other 1/2 is the gun. Again all this is just my honest opinion. God Bless

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...with 95% of the problems being with the Gen 4's.
    But I love the gen 4s

    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...The biggest problems I see with the older Glocks is the people who work on them.
    I hear that a lot - people doing something they don't know how to do - good way to mess up a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...After the famous catastrophic failure of the M92...
    Not to leave the M92 hanging in a bad light, that problem was fixed once and for all though, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...I helped test the Sig as an interim replacement for the Beretta.

    The Sig went through 13,000+ rounds of 9mm NATO Ball (without cleaning or lube) before it broke. And what broke was the de-cocker, but the gun still fired. THAT was impressive to say the least.
    It is impressive. To tell the truth, I would never have believed it could do that without lube.

    Sigs have excelled in some bodacious torture tests over the years. I just don't see how an aluminum framed gun could hold up so well!

    BTW, why does the Sig slide get loose and rattle? I have had at least two new Sigs get loose by the 500 round count. Doesn't seem to affect accuracy or reliability, but it sure is annoying to pick up an $800 gun and the slide rattles.
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  5. #20
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    I owned two 4th Gen 19s about a year ago. Had Warren Tactical sights installed on them. Took both guns home and locked the slide back for 48 hours. Cleaned and lubed the guns. Dry fire practice several during the first week. At the range, I ran 300 rounds of 9mm NATO ammo during several range trips through each gun. After each range trip, cleaned and lubed guns. ZERO malfunctions during this process.

    After this I ran a couple hundred rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr FMJ through each gun, again ZERO malfunctions.

    Friend of mine wanted the guns, so I traded the two guns to him for something elso. He still has the guns and informs me that they are still 100% reliable.
    Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.

  6. #21
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    Lightbulb

    The early Gen 4's were the problem, Tangle, so no worries!

    Not to leave the M92 hanging in a bad light, that problem was fixed once and for all though, right?
    Well, not really.

    The Sig was suppose to be an interim gun until they fixed the Beretta. So, there is a reason they still prefer the Sig.

    Disclaimer:
    I'm not a Sig fan, mainly because of ergonomics, high bore line and slide release location. I like the way the M92 behaves. I prefer it over the Sig as a shooter, but I wouldn't trust it in a long term relationship.

    FWIW: My late, great friend Zig Hensley had his NEWLY ISSUED M92 slide break in combat (during a room clearing) in the 1st Gulf War. But that's another story...
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orive 8 View Post
    I owned two 4th Gen 19s about a year ago. Had Warren Tactical sights installed on them. Took both guns home and locked the slide back for 48 hours. Cleaned and lubed the guns. Dry fire practice several during the first week. At the range, I ran 300 rounds of 9mm NATO ammo during several range trips through each gun. After each range trip, cleaned and lubed guns. ZERO malfunctions during this process.

    After this I ran a couple hundred rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr FMJ through each gun, again ZERO malfunctions.

    Friend of mine wanted the guns, so I traded the two guns to him for something elso. He still has the guns and informs me that they are still 100% reliable.
    Well, this is what I'm hoping/expecting to be the case. I hope the remaining gen 4 issues are simply residue and not an ongoing thing.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    The early Gen 4's were the problem, Tangle, so no worries!
    I'm aware of those early problems, but this thing about the 1000-2000 round, brass to the face thing is on newer gen 4s. That's a bit troubling.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    Disclaimer: I'm not a Sig fan, mainly because of ergonomics, high bore line and slide release location.
    Weeell, I can't see how you can claim the high bore after you shot a hammer fired CZ monstrosity for so long - LOL - I just had to say that.

    And, isn't the bore height of the 92 just about the same as the Sig?

    As for the slide release on a Sig, it's in the right place; H&K recognizes this and uses a long, ugly lever to get their slide release near the same location as the Sig. The location of the Sig lever allows the strong hand thumb or the weak hand thumb to release the slide. What other gun is that possible on?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...FWIW: My late, great friend Zig Hensley had his NEWLY ISSUED M92 slide break in combat (during a room clearing) in the 1st Gulf War. But that's another story...
    Oh man, that is bad.

    But out of the tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of 92s issued, how many have had a slide break? Probably really rare.

    And, I have to say, I love your signature line!!!!
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    The early Gen 4's were the problem, Tangle, so no worries!
    Ok, guys, I'm asking this of a gunsmith/trainer to see what his take is on the gen 4 as it now exists.

    The question is, what about this relatively new issue of brass to the face, even with the newer gen 4s? The problem is, that this brass to the face doesn't show up until around the 1000-2000 round mark. It seems not to be a widespread thing, but how can a guy know? Let's say he has 500 rounds through his gen 4 and intends to carry it as a SD gun. It seems like every shot he makes in practice is taking him closer and closer to the 1000-2000 round threshold.
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Ok, guys, I'm asking this of a gunsmith/trainer to see what his take is on the gen 4 as it now exists.

    The question is, what about this relatively new issue of brass to the face, even with the newer gen 4s? The problem is, that this brass to the face doesn't show up until around the 1000-2000 round mark. It seems not to be a widespread thing, but how can a guy know? Let's say he has 500 rounds through his gen 4 and intends to carry it as a SD gun. It seems like every shot he makes in practice is taking him closer and closer to the 1000-2000 round threshold.
    I think it may be recoil spring related, coupled with the extractor/ejector. We need to trouble shoot it.
    I have just got in some Lone Wolff recoil spring adapters which allow the use of the Gen 3 spring assy.

    Tell you what Tangle, how about I send you one and you give us a test report? That way it'll save me both time and ammo. I have to send your order out today, so I'll just throw one in the mix. Whatdayathink?
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  11. #26
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    No issues whatsoever with GEN 4 G26 (@ 2,500 rnds) My G19 is Gen 3 so all good but I would buy a Gen 4 G19/17 without hesitation.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    I think it may be recoil spring related, coupled with the extractor/ejector. We need to trouble shoot it.
    I have just got in some Lone Wolff recoil spring adapters which allow the use of the Gen 3 spring assy.

    Tell you what Tangle, how about I send you one and you give us a test report? That way it'll save me both time and ammo. I have to send your order out today, so I'll just throw one in the mix. Whatdayathink?
    Hmmm, I've love that of course! But the problem is, I'm not having any problems with my gen 4s and they've got way over 2000 rounds through them, so I'm not sure we're gonna gain a lot, but after 2000 or so rounds with the adaptor and gen 3 spring, we would know for sure that combination works (or not) and that might be a good way to go for some.

    I'll also shoot a lot with a SureFire X300 attached to confirm that combination too.

    Hmmm, it just occurred to me that I don't have a gen 3 recoil rod for a gen 3 G17. I'm pretty sure I have a G17 gen 3 spring. You wouldn't happen to have a gen 3 guide rod laying around you could spare for a while would you?
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  13. #28
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    I'll also shoot a lot with a SureFire X300 attached to confirm that combination too.
    FWIW: I had a guy with a NEW Gen 4 G19 in class a few months back. The gun wasn't running well. I told him to take the light off and the gun worked fine. He then put it back on and it jammed. Took it off again and ran fine, but the ejection was still erratic. I talked to him today and he sold the gun.

    It could be the spring gets broke in the problem goes away. But on his it was new gun (although he did not know how long it sat around the gunshop before he bought it).

    It won't hurt to research it. I am out of G17 spring assy's but need to order more.
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  14. #29
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    Usually I tell people to send the gun back to Glock or at least call them. They are very good about customer service.

    I was just looking at my notes. Seems I had two G17's in a class in June (very late model Gen 4's) that went all week without and problem along with a new G19 Gen 4 that ran well, too. Go figure...
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    FWIW: I had a guy with a NEW Gen 4 G19 in class a few months back. The gun wasn't running well. I told him to take the light off and the gun worked fine. He then put it back on and it jammed. Took it off again and ran fine, but the ejection was still erratic. I talked to him today and he sold the gun.

    It could be the spring gets broke in the problem goes away. But on his it was new gun (although he did not know how long it sat around the gunshop before he bought it).

    It won't hurt to research it. I am out of G17 spring assy's but need to order more.
    Yeah, I was aware of the WML (weapon mounted light) issue too. I have not seen that to be a problem on my G17 gen 4s. Well, actually I've shot them with the Streamlight TLR-2 rather than the X300.

    But, I will no longer use the TLR-2 on my SD guns. The paddle switch on the TLR-2 has to be up on the left side of the gun in order to be continuously on. Guess what's right above the paddle switch? Your support hand thumb! In recoil, I've had my thumb knock off the switch numerous times. I was shooting rapid fire with the laser only at the time and suddenly there's no laser - talk about stopping the show because you can't find the laser!

    The X300 can be locked on with the switch in the down position and isn't a problem.

    Oh, that's right, it is a spring assembly! I bet I have two. I ordered backups when I had gen 3s in prep for the end of the world as we know it. Send the adaptor - I've got the spring/rod covered!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

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