Are lasers worth it?

This is a discussion on Are lasers worth it? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm And a cheap one can be put on an airsoft gun to do your own testing before going " whole hog ...

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Thread: Are lasers worth it?

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    And a cheap one can be put on an airsoft gun to do your own testing before going " whole hog " on a real one.

    Nothing works for proving or disproving the need for a device like a little FoF in a dark or unlit house.
    That was going to be my next suggestion.

    Everyone should play out their favorite laser fantasy against a living, moving person and see how well it works (or not).

    Then try it in a realistic scenario.
    Last edited by ScottM; October 18th, 2012 at 03:38 AM.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array Dangerfield's Avatar
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    I think lasers are fine for a stable or slow moving target. In a quick draw and fire situation you’re going to just bring the weapon up, aim and shoot at least that is my experience. You may not even get a chance to activate the laser.
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  4. #63
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    I don't really need to imagine it at all. My friend and I both train and practice regularly for low light, and tactical/defensive/combat shooting which involves shooting while moving in various directions, shooting from retention, and so forth. If you have your mind set against lasers, then you'll make up whatever rationale you need to justify your stance on the topic.
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  5. #64
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    And conversely
    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    If you have your mind set FOR lasers, then you'll make up whatever rationale you need to justify your stance on the topic.
    I think lasers have a place. I just feel it is a much more limited niche than some of you. A hardware solution for a software problem.

    The cost of a laser would be better spent on a quality low light class.
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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    My laser cost LESS than the low light class.
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  7. #66
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    My laser cost LESS than the low light class.
    I didn't say you wouldn't have to add a few $$$ to the cost.

  8. #67
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    And conversely
    I think lasers have a place. I just feel it is a much more limited niche than some of you. A hardware solution for a software problem.

    The cost of a laser would be better spent on a quality low light class.
    You've never tried to shoot a handgun while holding a riot shield, or while shooting from behind cover wherein you can't get a clean bore axis line of sight to get a sight picture. There are plenty of reasons a tool like a laser can be of assistance. If you don't want one, don't buy one. This isn't a roleplaying game. You don't get a set amount of money to spend on gear and training and that's all you get. Spend whatever you need to for proper gear and proper training, and regular practice to retain that training and set it to muscle memory.
    You only divert back to the highest level of training you've mastered when under high stress settings. You don't revert back to just "any training you've received."
    Last edited by GlassWolf; October 19th, 2012 at 06:08 PM.
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  9. #68
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    And conversely
    I think lasers have a place. I just feel it is a much more limited niche than some of you. A hardware solution for a software problem.

    The cost of a laser would be better spent on a quality low light class.
    ...implying such a class is available in my aria....



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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    What were you shooting? Black powder?!

    Seriously - I have never had this problem. I find it hard to believe that the smoke was so dense that you could not see the dot on the target.
    No, no charcoal, but a small indoor range (maybe 6 bays), low light, and the targets "wore" shirts, so even before shooting the laser dot wasn't bright on the target as it would be on a white or similar, reflective surface. The smoke wasn't dense like a fog, but at 5-10 feet in front of the muzzle the laser was lighting up the smoke, which occluded the dot from the targets. The gun I borrowed for that stage was a USP, I think, and the ammo was most likely WWB (.45). It was an eye-opener for both the gun's owner and me.
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  11. #70
    Member Array neverenough's Avatar
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    Exactly! Well said there GlassWolf......But then I've always liked having headlights on my truck also. I'm not always cruising in daylight under ideal conditions.

    neverenough

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    I'd say go for it if they help your accuracy!

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Go green or go home.

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  14. #73
    Member Array th0rr's Avatar
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    Meh. Its a tool, nothing more and nothing less. I use a CT on my LCP as I personally think the sights on it sucks. Yes I can shoot with it without the laser I just choose to add a tool that I find helps. For me. My Beretta on the other hand I have no issue with and would not even think of putting a laser on it. Works fine as is. Doesn't need any additional tools other then the rubber grip I've put on it. As always YMMV, just throwing my 2 cents in the pile.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    You've never tried to shoot a ahndgun while holding a riot shield, or while shooting from behind cover wherein you can't get a clean bore axis line of sight to get a sight picture. There are plenty of reasons a tool like a laser can be of assistance. If you don't want one, don't buy one. This isn't a roleplaying game. You don't get a set amount of money to spend on gear and training and that's all you get. Spend whatever you need to for proper gear and proper training, and regular practice to retain that training and set it to muscle memory.
    You only divert back to the highest level of training you've mastered under high stress settings. You don't revert back to just "any trainign you've received."
    I'll take you on with this one. I have, in fact, use a shield. And with a handgun, and with a shotgun. And not only that, I have served my share of Federal Fugitive warrants, both in houses, and apartments. But here's the key; it's always with a well trained team, and not a John Wayne effort.

    And that's how these " tools are put to use by professionals. A team effort, with 4 or 5 WML's mounted on weapons that are covering an entire area. Upper and lower left and right. Muzzles covering all directions.the lasers are used in conjunction with lights.

    But this isnt about the applications of LE use. It's about how the laser can be applicable to citizen use for SD on their SD gun. And this is where I have an issue with them.

    Unless you are operating with other people, trained to work and have and understand assigned areas of responsibility, then you are only able to focus on one area at a time.

    Now, I am going to miff some off here, but so be. You are not carrying a weapon to actively engage someone in a shoot out. Your job is to remove yourself from the situation. Period.

    Going to clear a house. Oh sure. Just put on your trusty WML and laser and going sweeping through the house.
    I bet you don't get far if someone is really serious and is waiting on you.

    Think that laser is going to save the day in a sudden and violent parking lot encounter? I'll bet if, if you have time to draw and get off a shot, you will never notice the laser.

    Shooting around corners without lining up the sights? How the hell do you see the dot if you don't get an eyeball around the corner? Oh wait, you will have a mirror on you for that.

    When people who get paid to do such things do it, they don't go at it alone. There's a reason for that. There's a reason you send the K9 inside first.

    Could a laser be helpful? Sure. It is possible that it could be, but it's not likely that it will make a difference that good night sights couldn't have accomplished.

    It is alarming to me the people who put these things on their weapons convinced by the advertisers that they will allow them to overcome an engagement.

    And, I'm willing to meet with anyone, in any shooting type scenario that can show me that your laser gives you a decisive advantage over my iron sighted Colt, or G19 with TFO sights.
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  16. #75
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Think that laser is going to save the day in a sudden and violent parking lot encounter? I'll bet if, if you have time to draw and get off a shot, you will never notice the laser.
    The laser can be useful in other situations I've already outlined, as well. In the home, at night, if the lightswitch for the room is on the other side of the room, the laser, and a tac light can be useful tools. The laser is also a good intimidation factor, when a target sees the dot on his chest, he reconsideres his career choices after he's broken into yoour garage, or home.

    Shooting around corners without lining up the sights? How the hell do you see the dot if you don't get an eyeball around the corner? Oh wait, you will have a mirror on you for that.
    This is an easy one. Watch the Cromson Trace free DVD some time if you want examples of this. Taking cover behind something may make for an easier shot if you have to reach around the side of the barricade, whre at the same time, it may be the less opportune way to see your target, as a peek through a portal of some sort would give protected visibility of the aggressor.

    The laser is a tool. I'm not saying it replaces the need to be proficient with iron sights, but it can be a handy tool or assist.

    I know of people who have visual impairments where the laser is a priceless tool in low light, where irons aren't easy to use for them even with night sights (rod/cone damage, retinal damage) but they can see plenty well enough to acquire a target and differentiate between a friendly and a hostile.

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