Are lasers worth it? - Page 6

Are lasers worth it?

This is a discussion on Are lasers worth it? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've got a couple of issues with your points here. First, I've long ago watched the Crimson Trace propaganda films. They sell the product. Then, ...

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  1. #76
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I've got a couple of issues with your points here.

    First, I've long ago watched the Crimson Trace propaganda films. They sell the product.

    Then, the ol red dot on the chest dissuading an attacker has gone the way of the " pump rack" of the shotgun as an intimidation factor. Both debatable, high in symbolic, low on substance.

    And then there's the" I can't see well" thing again. While this has some merit, it still begs the question of if your vision is really that bad, how do you trust it to not mistake a target in bad light for a family member?

    All of these are continually repeated by people who advocate the laser because they have one. And from my own use and training with them I am not buying it.

    Just say you think they are cool, you like it, and it might assist you in some rare occasion. I can buy that.

    But I'm calling it BS when I hear people who don't really use them for anything but self imposed " training" , proclaim them as a must have.

    Actually, I don't like WML's on lights carried for SD and definitely not for misguided people who think they should clear their own house.
    However, if you must put yourself in needless danger, at least a WML let's you see what you are shooting at, and, could possibly serve double duty by temporarily blinding someone and giving you a chance to escape or do what you have to do.

    No, I am not against them. I like guns too; but I don't want a bunch of careless untrained people running around with them. Think about what you are doing, what you really need, before you start buying a bunch of crap to put on your weapon.
    Tayopo likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    But many will have common traits.

    I don't like averages, but stats say (they've been repeated here enough times) that fights occur up close and really quickly with few shots fired. That's why so many say they don't need to 'train' past 7yds.

    No, not all happen that way. That's why I train out to 100yds myself.

    That' why I believe most fights will be over before the laser can be seen.
    But some of us have no interest and less likelihood of being involved in gunfights 'past 7 yards.'

    If it's more than that, most likely I can LEAVE. Or protect myself under cover until/if they come to me. I'm not going after anyone and I'm not "planning" on saving the day for other people (flame away). If it's possible, great, but that is not what I train for. I train for 30 feet...IDPA training works well for that.

    I agree with the close and fast part tho. How many videos does one need to see not to realize that?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    Every situation is different, and I'd rather have a tool that I may need, than need it and not have it. .
    Exactly.

    Laser does not equal dependency. It (with proper training) equals advantage.

    Not only with point shooting, but with needing to expose yourself less.

    I'm a huge proponent of moving while shooting and train to do so, but if I cant....I want my laser.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  4. #79
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Imagine running, and trying to breath, while shooting. And to complicate the matter, it was dark. To just maintain proper sight on target and also break the trigger without jerking it is a discipline that is difficult enough at the range, let alone with all of these other things going on.

    And that is the thing people seem to forget when talking lasers. The red dot doesnt magically guide the bullets to the target if you dont do your part breaking the shot. And, it certainly doesnt give a better view of the target.

    Why the assumption that people arent training to shoot on the move and maintain trigger control? To point shoot, and maintain trigger control? It's a whole separate issue from using a laser, just like using any other sights (or point shooting) are separate from trigger control.

    Separate functions, but all need to be trained on together. Just like any other parts we train on...flipping the thumb safety on a 1911, drawing smoothly from a holster, etc. We have to train to put it all together no matter what....that's what training is for.
    Tayopo likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I'm a huge proponent of moving while shooting and train to do so, but if I cant....I want my laser.

    I think from reading this and post in the past you have a good idea of what you are doing.
    My question here, and I'm not trying to argue your point, but what or how does a laser give you an advantage if you are not able to move, such as shooting on the move as you described?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Why the assumption that people arent training to shoot on the move and maintain trigger control? To point shoot, and maintain trigger control? It's a whole separate issue from using a laser, just like using any other sights (or point shooting) are separate from trigger control.

    Separate functions, but all need to be trained on together. Just like any other parts we train on...flipping the thumb safety on a 1911, drawing smoothly from a holster, etc. We have to train to put it all together no matter what....that's what training is for.
    So how well did it work for you last time you were involved in an actual " moving" exchange of shots with someone?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #82
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    But some of us have no interest and less likelihood of being involved in gunfights 'past 7 yards.'
    I have no interest in being in any gunfight.

    I am, however, unable to dictate the distance in which the fight may take place if it does.

  8. #83
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    I don't use a laser because sure as heck, when I needed it--it wouldn't work.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #84
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Now, I am going to miff some off here, but so be. You are not carrying a weapon to actively engage someone in a shoot out. Your job is to remove yourself from the situation. Period.

    .
    Heh, I'm going to "miff" some off here too...cuz I completely agree with the bold but from reading this and other gun forums....many times that is not the mindset among 'civilians.'
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

    This is an easy one. Watch the Cromson Trace free DVD some time if you want examples of this. Taking cover behind something may make for an easier shot if you have to reach around the side of the barricade, whre at the same time, it may be the less opportune way to see your target, as a peek through a portal of some sort would give protected visibility of the aggressor.
    This ^^^

    I train FOR this in my home....I know my home, I know the concealment and cover, I know the angles. It is one strategy I can use if I have to.

    And I can visualize ways to use it the same way if I have to outside my home, if I cant retreat.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    So how well did it work for you last time you were involved in an actual " moving" exchange of shots with someone?
    Well I do both (with/without) in IDPA practice (I dont compete but use the local practices to train...$10 a practice!)

    Up close, no difference and I am looking at the target, not the laser. At longer distance....like paper plates at 30 feet....I do focus on the laser instead of the plates. Not sure it helps but the plates are always much higher than COM on a person. It's also a full-light situation so not a direct comparison to low light. Cant say I've tried it in a huge variety of situations but I am focusing on trigger control (in training, often to the point where it is...intentionally...slowing my reaction time) as well.

    Edit: Well duh....of course nobody was shooting back at me. But of the many many many people on this site, believe me I am one that knows very well that that will be a huge game changer and my body will react as well. One doesnt have to have been involved in gunfights ( but from other emergency situations) to know that. That is why I MOVE!!!!!
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #87
    Member Array neverenough's Avatar
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    An additional thought on the laser thing....(before it gets beat to death)....I ESPECIALLY like a lasered weapon when carried camping/backpacking etc. because of the fact, when it gets dark an array of nocturnal "furry" animals begin their rounds.

    Ever have to leave that warm, toasty sleeping bag and tent 'cause you just SHOULD have peed before turning in? Crawling out into vast, cold darkness the first thing I grab is the weaponry. (the one with the railmounted light AND laser). Pretty damn comforting....

    Yep....this is a somewhat different purpose for a laser, but when I'm standing there listening to leaves crunch behind me, that laser is worth every penny....

    neverenough

  13. #88
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    I've shared my views on lasers, and I'm politely stepping back from this conversation now, as I have nothing more to offer, aside from this one tidbit of useful information.

    If you have cats in your home, and a firearm with a laser mounted on it, you may never need to pull the trigger. If someone does break into your home, and finds a laser illuminating his privates, he'll be more worried about the cat claws that just sank into them as well. :D
    lchamp likes this.

  14. #89
    Member Array Springer99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    I've shared my views on lasers, and I'm politely stepping back from this conversation now, as I have nothing more to offer, aside from this one tidbit of useful information.

    If you have cats in your home, and a firearm with a laser mounted on it, you may never need to pull the trigger. If someone does break into your home, and finds a laser illuminating his privates, he'll be more worried about the cat claws that just sank into them as well. :D
    I don't care who you are; that's funny and (yes we have cats) oh so true.!

  15. #90
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    If you have cats in your home, and a firearm with a laser mounted on it, you may never need to pull the trigger. If someone does break into your home, and finds a laser illuminating his privates, he'll be more worried about the cat claws that just sank into them as well. :D
    Thanks, I needed that!

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