I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s

This is a discussion on I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow! It's hard to keep up - so many good posts and points! Originally Posted by MLittle I'm wrestling with the same issues you are..... ...

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Thread: I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s

  1. #16
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    Wow! It's hard to keep up - so many good posts and points!

    Quote Originally Posted by MLittle View Post
    I'm wrestling with the same issues you are..... Most of the "experts" tell you to carry the gun you shoot the best provided all are equally reliable. I started out shooting and carrying Glocks, but then discovered Sig pistols. I tried for over a year to shoot my Glock as well as my Sig, but for me the Sig was just more accurate. Even with the da/sa transition, I shoot my Sig P220 better than my Glock 30. Earlier this year I purchased my first 1911, a Colt Lightweight Commander XSE. WOW! Was I surprised by how easy it is to shoot it quickly and accurately. I thought I shot the Sig well until I began shooting the Colt. Now I'm debating whether to move to the Colt for carry. The Colt did have function problems during the first 200-300 rounds, but has been 100% reliable since. Now I have over 1,000 rounds through it. At 10 yards I was shooting through the same hole..... I know it's a different manual of arms, but shooting the 1911 is such a rewarding experience. Again, the experts tell us accuracy is the most important element in self defense situations.....getting that first shot on target. For me...that may be with a 1911.
    Man, been there, done that myself. Shooting a good 1911 for the first time is an eye-opening experience. Not everyone will feel that way, but then we're all a little different and that's fine.

    The lightweight Commander throws yet another consideration into the mix - that "too heavy and too big to carry" mostly goes away. The low round count is still there and I've preached high capacity for years. And still I recognize it's value, but sometimes I think we over-value it. High capacity does better meet the "better to have and not need than not have and need", but that's far from specifying how much is enough. And, there are other factors, as you have mentioned that count too.

    I'm about to the point that I'm gonna quit worrying about having to shoot 15 rounds in a gunfight, and carry what I prefer, since I can't decide which is best.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    Tangle: Like others here I also enjoy reading your posts. Keep them coming
    Thanks man - I'll try to do that. Sometimes I wonder if people get tired of seeing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    You make some good points on my 2 favorite styles of hahndguns. 1911's and Glocks. They are my keepers as well.

    While I shoot my 1911's a little more accurately, I've decided to go with my Glock's if SHTF and mostly carry my Glocks for CC.
    I think that's very wise to carry the gun you're going to depend on in a SHTF situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    ...While I hope to become as good as shot as you are with these 2 platforms.
    I hope you do better than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    ... My goal is to be proficient with all different styles of handguns. Not sure if that will happen, but it's a goal of mine.
    That's gonna be hard - well depending on what you mean by proficient with all guns. Not impossible by any means, just hard. The problem is your practice time has to be divided over all the guns you want to become proficient with. You kind of become a jack of all trades and a master of none.

    Maybe you could modify the goal to become familiar with all different styles of handguns. That way you could focus most of your time on your carry/SHTF Glocks and get to where you can shoot them better than I can. Hmmm, I'm making it sound like I can't shoot a Glock. I can, just not quite as well as a 1911, well, unless you want to talk rapid fire, then.......

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    ...Right now I'm struggling with my recently purchased Sig P220. I know everyone says they are really accurate. But I get frusterated with shooting it compared to my Glocks and 1911's. I'm sure that will change with more range time though.
    Not sure what to tell you there. P220s are supposed to be superbly accurate, but I can't vouch for them. I'm not saying they aren't accurate, but I don't shoot them as well as a 1911.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    ...I shoot my 1st shot the most accurately with the 1911's, so that is why I like CC'ing the 1911. But I like the weight, not having to swipe a safety and the capacity of the Glocks. (probably could come up with some other reasons, but those are the main ones...
    Yep! We're thinkin' just alike. When you say, "...But I like the weight..." do you really mean you like the weight or did you mean you don't like the weight? If by chance you don't like the weight of a steel 1911, but like the platform, you may want to consider an aluminum (alloy) framed 1911.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksblazer View Post
    ... Some days I think I should switch to CC'ing the 1911 more often. But for now, I'm going to stick with my Glocks.
    Yep! We're thinking just alike.
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  3. #17
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    Others have said it all, but thanks for pointing out your p.o.a. I ha e been thinking a lot about this lately. Do I need to get the sights lined up so poa is always poi, or is it more important to know poi vs poa and shoot accordingly. I assume this changes with all sorts of things including and probably mostly ammo, but something I have been pondering no less.

    As a good shot does it bother you that you aim where you do not hit or ok that compensation is part of the deal?
    BigJon


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  4. #18
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    Well, heres my think'in on that issue. As much as I love my Colt, and consider it a premium SD type pistol for everyday run of the mill circumstances, a SHTF is an entirely bird of a different color.

    When I factor in the hardships and abuse that my gun may endure, without the proper cleaning equipment, and being exposed to different enviromental issues such as salt, water, dirt, and just plain ol guts and grime, I am going to pick up the Glock.

    I have alot of faith in the Colt, and they were at one time used in such adverse conditions. But, they are not corrosive resistant like the Glock, even if coated with an exterior finish, the guts are still subject to problems with corrosion. And, without tools, and only a punch, I can more easily replace the fewer drop in parts of the Glock.

    Now, heres a pic of two groups fired each at 15 yards, one with my Colt, and the other with a 1989 Gen 2 G19


    Theres not enough difference in the grouping to give up the durability of the G19. Now, to be fair, the G19 did have some flyers, but thats still only a difference of an eyeball and a nose hit.
    Another place I will make a reversal in my opinion of a carry gun in a SHTF situation is capacity. Most everyday, I am quite content with a 5 round snubby or 7 shot 1911. But in conditions out of the ordinary, such as a SHTF deal, I am holstering a Glock, with its legendary reliability under extreme and abusive circumstances, and, dusting off my AR 15 rifles.
    Of course, all I have said is subject to personal prejudice.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post

    That's gonna be hard - well depending on what you mean by proficient with all guns. Not impossible by any means, just hard. The problem is your practice time has to be divided over all the guns you want to become proficient with. You kind of become a jack of all trades and a master of none.

    Maybe you could modify the goal to become familiar with all different styles of handguns. That way you could focus most of your time on your carry/SHTF Glocks and get to where you can shoot them better than I can. Hmmm, I'm making it sound like I can't shoot a Glock. I can, just not quite as well as a 1911, well, unless you want to talk rapid fire, then.......


    Yep! We're thinkin' just alike. When you say, "...But I like the weight..." do you really mean you like the weight or did you mean you don't like the weight? If by chance you don't like the weight of a steel 1911, but like the platform, you may want to consider an aluminum (alloy) framed 1911.
    I guess I should have worded the way you did. I'd like to be framilair not necesarily proficient. While it would be nice to shoot cloverleaf groups with different styles of handguns. I don't have the $$ and time for that. So I'd just like to be good enough to keep my groups inside the 8 ring and shoot groups like you do with the Glocks and 1911's.

    I should have explained this better as well. I prefer to carry a lighter pistol Glock/Colt Defender for CC. But at the range I like weight of the full size steel 1911.

    Thanks for the reply's
    "Get rid of that chrome plated sissy pistol and get yourself a GLOCK"

  6. #20
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    I understand your dilemma. I find myself waffling between my Dan Wesson CBOB and my CZ75 P-01. Accuracy wise the CBOB is a tack driver, has been from the day it came out of the box, and have never had a hiccup from it. The P-01 is 100% reliable, good accuracy , DA/SA trigger is good, but no where near what the 1911 SA trigger is. I love both guns and have a hard time deciding between accuracy and capacity.
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  7. #21
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    "Not every gunfight is an adrenaline pumping event, it depends on the situation. As I described above: How far away is the BG? Does he know I'm there? Is he partially exposed - maybe just half of his head? Are there innocents near him either behind, in front or beside him that would be in danger if a shot missed? Is he shielding himself with an innocent?"

    This is a very interesting statement. Have you ever been on the other end of a gun or in a high stress scenario? I don't know too many people who would NOT have their adrenalin pumping in a scenario like that. Paper does not shoot back nor does it move. There are alot of variables in shooting scenarios. I hope you never have to encounter one but to say not every gunfight is an adrenaline pumping event is highly questionable.

  8. #22
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    Cool

    Tangle,

    Your dilemma is not at all uncommon. I remember how simple life was when my EDC was my work gun, a stock Colt Combat Commander in .45 acp. I was a happy camper.

    Then I started competing in the early days of IPSC and Pin Shooting. So, I quickly moved up to a full size, custom 1911. I was now a VERY happy camper with the improved accuracy and speed of the Custom Govít Model. All was well.

    Then I started competing in Speed Steel and I needed hi-capacity for the ďMan vs. ManĒ stuff. So, after a brief stint with the STI 2011's, I decided on the EAA Witness small frame in 9MM. Gosh, I loved shooting that gun, and I began competing with it and carrying it daily. Then something terrible happened.

    My friend gave me a G19 for Christmas (as a joke ). But since I was no longer in police work, and retired from competition, and my wife carried a G19, I thought it would be fine for EDCC (Every Day Casual Carry). I found the dang thing was so light, so compact, and so reliable, that I quickly got spoiled.

    Now that I have been customizing the G-Locks, I like them even more. I think, I dunno, I just finished building a STI 2011 for a client thatís a tack driver. Itís light enough to carry, its hi-cap, maybe Iím just getting old, dazed and confused (again).

    Bottom Line: I feel your pain, guilt and confusion, I think, I dunno, do I?
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...It’s light enough to carry, its hi-cap, maybe I’m just getting old, dazed and confused (again).

    Bottom Line: I feel your pain, guilt and confusion, I think, I dunno, do I?
    Yep - you feel it alright and scary accurately!

    I love Glocks; I love 1911s. I clearly shoot 1911s a bit more accurately than Glocks, and I'm not sure what that's really worth but it sure builds confidence. I also shoot a 1911 with less effort and I don't know quite how to express 'less effort' in words, but I feel it.
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    I blame Zombies.

    With the Zombie craze many shooters mindset have been fixated on the problem of dealing with a host of low skill and low dedication enemies who can be dealt with somewhat comfortably and will be easy to run from once the initial wave has crested.

    So I propose this. Your hypothetical opponent is a Vampyre. It's faster than you, stronger than you and won't be stopped unless you make a fast, solid hit to the heart.

    For that I'll take the Kimber

  11. #25
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    Ahh...

    You are not alone Tangle...

    May our quest for the ultimate X never end!

    Such a wonderful journey...

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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if people get tired of seeing them.
    In the immortal words of John Wayne, "Not Hardly"!
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  13. #27
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    Tangle - I can truly empathize with your dilemma. After an awful lot of messing around with Glocks and pocket pistols of assorted calibers I've FINALLY settled on the one gun for me ... a Gen 4 Glock 26. If you haven't read the Harris Press Complete Book of Handguns by Massad Ayoob, I would highly recommend it. Over the last 8 years I've owned a few G26s and shot them in IDPA matches, often better than I shoot full-size Glocks and G34s, G35s. Never could figure out why, until I read the article by Ayoob (who I trust implicitly in these matters) in the Harris publication.

    Like you, I'm getting older and will begin collecting my Social Security investment very soon, which gives you an idea of my age. Along with the age issue is a memory issue, which means I can easily misplace things or hide them so well I can't find them again ... and that's not a good idea when it comes to guns and/or magazines. All of which compelled me to choose ONE GUN for all things self defense related. All the money I'm setting aside from gun sales will be going for more Federal 115 grain +P+ (9BPLE),which is still a bargain at $19/50-round box online. At that price I can shoot my carry ammo in IDPA matches on a regular basis and feel very confident in my abilities with the ammo as well as the gun's reliability.

    To top things off, we got my wife a Gen 3 Model 26 last spring, so we can share mags and ammo. Occasionally I'll shoot her gun in IDPA matches with the carry ammo, just to be certain that HER gun is also as reliable as possible.

    So far, I like the way your mind is working. Just wish I could shoot groups like those in your post. I'll bet you could do just as well with a Glock 26.

    Good luck.
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  14. #28
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    I've got it......Carry the Glock on one side, the Kimber on the other......well....wait a second, then you have to choose which one you want at your strong hand. hmmmm.....nevermind.

    neverenough

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    Quote Originally Posted by whododat View Post
    "Not every gunfight is an adrenaline pumping event, it depends on the situation. As I described above: How far away is the BG? Does he know I'm there? Is he partially exposed - maybe just half of his head? Are there innocents near him either behind, in front or beside him that would be in danger if a shot missed? Is he shielding himself with an innocent?"

    This is a very interesting statement. Have you ever been on the other end of a gun or in a high stress scenario? I don't know too many people who would NOT have their adrenalin pumping in a scenario like that. Paper does not shoot back nor does it move. There are alot of variables in shooting scenarios. I hope you never have to encounter one but to say not every gunfight is an adrenaline pumping event is highly questionable.
    Cool Hand Luke?
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  16. #30
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    So I've been practicing with my new 30SF and finding my shots low and to the left.....guess I'm attributing this to trigger pull as I don't have that problem with my Colt 1911's..............or..............are Glock really just inaccurate ?

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