I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s - Page 3

I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s

This is a discussion on I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by whododat ..Have you ever been on the other end of a gun or in a high stress scenario? Yes, have you? Originally ...

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Thread: I decided: Glock is definitely my go-to/SHTF gun. Then I do this with my Kimber 1911s

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by whododat View Post
    ..Have you ever been on the other end of a gun or in a high stress scenario?
    Yes, have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by whododat View Post
    ... I don't know too many people who would NOT have their adrenalin pumping in a scenario like that.
    A scenario like what?

    Quote Originally Posted by whododat View Post
    ...Paper does not shoot back nor does it move.
    So how do you train? I took the Gunsite 250. 350, 499, and Advanced Tactical pistol, Thunder Ranch Handgun 2 Low Light Level, Blackwater Training Center Handgun I & II, Advanced Tactical Training, and a few others. They all used paper, well and some steel, but it doesn't shoot back either.

    Quote Originally Posted by whododat View Post
    ...There are alot of variables in shooting scenarios. I hope you never have to encounter one but to say not every gunfight is an adrenaline pumping event is highly questionable.
    In those 5 day training classes I listed, most had FOF real-life scenario drills. And to say we become bumbling masses of nerves that can't even press a slide release is equally questionable. To say that we are such nervous wrecks that we can't shoot is also questionable.

    In one of his books, Jim Cirrillo describes the incredible 'rush' he had in his first ambush type gunfight. By ambush I mean he was undercover expecting the gunfight. He describes it as a pretty traumatic experience, yet he put two well placed shots exactly where he needed to - the head - that's the only shot he had. His endless marksmanship training came through.

    However, if one had to make a 25 yard head shot to stop a shooter shooting at other innocents, not even aware of your existence, would be much, much different than being 5 yards away from a man trying to kill you.

    But the whole emphasis here is that learning to shoot accurately, i.e. marksmanship, is detrimental to performance in a gunfight. I can always shoot less accurate, but do I want to practice inaccuracy, i.e. poor marksmanship, because purportedly I would do better in a gunfight if I had not practiced marksmanship? Just about every knowledgeable person familiar with gunfighting talks about bullet placement. As the range increases and the available target size decreases, i.e. how much of the target is exposed, and what innocents could be endangered by an inaccurate round, marksmanship comes to the forefront.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  2. #32
    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
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    Tangle, you truly are a gifted shooter. Have you ever shot a CZ75? I am a 1911 guy, but I can shoot the CZ better than my 1911's. My CZ will shoot groups like yours, I can't but it will. I would love to see what you could do with one.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1gunsnowbird View Post
    ...If you haven't read the Harris Press Complete Book of Handguns by Massad Ayoob, I would highly recommend it. Over the last 8 years I've owned a few G26s and shot them in IDPA matches, often better than I shoot full-size Glocks and G34s, G35s. Never could figure out why, until I read the article by Ayoob (who I trust implicitly in these matters) in the Harris publication.
    I have one problem with that - none of the top competition shooters shoot a G26. Why? One would think that they would know that a G26 is more accurate than a G17 or G34, but you never see them using a G26. I'm not saying a G26 isn't accurate, I'm just pondering why the top guns always choose the longer barrel versions???

    Quote Originally Posted by 1gunsnowbird View Post
    ...Like you, I'm getting older and will begin collecting my Social Security investment very soon, which gives you an idea of my age.
    Hey, let me tell you, drawing SS is GREAT! I'm still working full time and drawing full SS, and let's be clear here, I paid into that system all my life, so a bunch, if not all, is my money to start with.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1gunsnowbird View Post
    ...Along with the age issue is a memory issue, which means I can easily misplace things or hide them so well I can't find them again ... and that's not a good idea when it comes to guns and/or magazines. All of which compelled me to choose ONE GUN for all things self defense related. All the money I'm setting aside from gun sales will be going for more Federal 115 grain +P+ (9BPLE),which is still a bargain at $19/50-round box online. At that price I can shoot my carry ammo in IDPA matches on a regular basis and feel very confident in my abilities with the ammo as well as the gun's reliability.
    Your logic is impeccable! And, I have to congratulate you on doing something I haven't be able to do in 12 years - pick one gun . You chose well too! And for the right reasons!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1gunsnowbird View Post
    ...To top things off, we got my wife a Gen 3 Model 26 last spring, so we can share mags and ammo.
    Very, very smart!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1gunsnowbird View Post
    ...So far, I like the way your mind is working. Just wish I could shoot groups like those in your post. I'll bet you could do just as well with a Glock 26.
    Now see what you've gone and done - you did that on purpose! You know I'm susceptible to suggestion! Now I'll have to trade my gen 3 G26 for a gen 4 G26 and go shoot it. It's not that the there's anything wrong with the gen 3, but all my Glocks are gen 4s and there's something to be said for consistency - wait- you already made that point!

    LOL! I should thank you - you've given me an excuse to get a gen 4 G26 (it will be a trade) and go shooting!

    Good posting gunsnowbird!
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    So how do you train? I took the Gunsite 250. 350, 499, and Advanced Tactical pistol, Thunder Ranch Handgun 2 Low Light Level, Blackwater Training Center Handgun I & II, Advanced Tactical Training, and a few others. They all used paper.
    I luv u man

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdmorgan View Post
    Tangle, you truly are a gifted shooter.
    Thanks, that's encouraging and kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdmorgan View Post
    ...Have you ever shot a CZ75? I am a 1911 guy, but I can shoot the CZ better than my 1911's. My CZ will shoot groups like yours, I can't but it will. I would love to see what you could do with one.
    I haven't shot a CZ, but I've always been drawn to them and wanted to shoot one. WAIT A MINUTE! you guys are ganging up on me! First the G26 and now the CZ75 - what's next - wait - I did not ask that!!!

    My problem is, I'm trying to not only 'thin the herd', I'm trying to narrow the 'bred' as well.

    Worse, I've heard a lot of
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Thanks, that's encouraging and kind.


    I haven't shot a CZ, but I've always been drawn to them and wanted to shoot one. WAIT A MINUTE! you guys are ganging up on me! First the G26 and now the CZ75 - what's next - wait - I did not ask that!!!

    My problem is, I'm trying to not only 'thin the herd', I'm trying to narrow the 'bred' as well.

    Worse, I've heard a lot of
    Tangle,

    The CZ75 SA is even better than the standard. That's the one you want to shoot. It has your name all over it!

    Just think about it. They are all steel with full length slide rails. They balance as well or better than a 1911.

    Ooohh! I need to get mine out the the range. My finger is getting itchy!

    If you have never broken your gun or bled on your gun in training, you're doing it wrong!
    Train hard, live easy.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    So I've been practicing with my new 30SF and finding my shots low and to the left.....guess I'm attributing this to trigger pull as I don't have that problem with my Colt 1911's..............or..............are Glock really just inaccurate ?
    Glocks are not inaccurate. It might be helpful to get one of those targets that identify what influences high, low, left, right, etc. based on where your groups cluster on the target. Also, it's possible a combination of things are happening, your sights could be a bit off to the left and you may be mismanaging the trigger.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Tangle,

    The CZ75 SA is even better than the standard. That's the one you want to shoot. It has your name all over it!

    Just think about it. They are all steel with full length slide rails. They balance as well or better than a 1911.

    Ooohh! I need to get mine out the the range. My finger is getting itchy!

    I need an emoticon that has hands over the ears and eyes - I really don't need to be reading stuff like that! Arrrr - I like too many guns as it is.

    You know my weak mind is subject to suggestion!!!!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    Others have said it all, but thanks for pointing out your p.o.a. I ha e been thinking a lot about this lately. Do I need to get the sights lined up so poa is always poi, or is it more important to know poi vs poa and shoot accordingly. I assume this changes with all sorts of things including and probably mostly ammo, but something I have been pondering no less.

    As a good shot does it bother you that you aim where you do not hit or ok that compensation is part of the deal?
    Hey BigJon,
    I have to start with an apology. I meant to reply to your post as soon as I read it but didn't have time and by the time I did have time, I was off on other posts. So, sorry, I did not mean to leave you hanging like that.

    Yes, you need to get the sights lined up so the gun hits to the POA. In the case of my Desert Warrior, the targets shown in my OP were shot with the first 100 rounds in my first range session with it. I did not have an opportunity to adjust the sights so I had to compensate with the POA and POI.

    The POA/POI issue is not as significant if one only has one gun, because he learns the hold. But while it may not be as significant, it's not insignificant either. It means you have to estimate 'hold' as the range changes.

    However a larger issue is when one has more than one gun. If the guns, or even one of the guns, doesn't shoot to the POA, then you have to remember which gun it is and where it does shoot.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I need an emoticon that has hands over the ears and eyes - I really don't need to be reading stuff like that! Arrrr - I like too many guns as it is.

    You know my weak mind is subject to suggestion!!!!
    DRM likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    So I've been practicing with my new 30SF and finding my shots low and to the left.....guess I'm attributing this to trigger pull as I don't have that problem with my Colt 1911's..............or..............are Glock really just inaccurate ?
    What you are experiencing is not uncommon with Glocks. It's partly the shooter (the going low part) and mostly the heavier, longer trigger pull of the Glock. It's a combination of trigger torque and whack (smacking the trigger in anticipation of the impending BOOM! and recoil).

    A lighter, crisper trigger job will help the torque issue. Dry firing is the ONLY solution I have found to help in overcoming whack. That and using softer loads in practice will also help.

    FWIW: We all whack, the better shooters just whack less.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    We all whack, the better shooters just whack less.
    Now that's funny!
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    ...FWIW: We all whack, the better shooters just whack less.
    Well huh - all this time I thought it was just me that whacked

    Well, or we don't let the gun move as much when we whack. I had to say that; that innocently and subtly implies I'm one of those better shooters
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRM View Post
    What you are experiencing is not uncommon with Glocks. It's partly the shooter (the going low part) and mostly the heavier, longer trigger pull of the Glock. It's a combination of trigger torque and whack (smacking the trigger in anticipation of the impending BOOM! and recoil).

    A lighter, crisper trigger job will help the torque issue. Dry firing is the ONLY solution I have found to help in overcoming whack. That and using softer loads in practice will also help.

    FWIW: We all whack, the better shooters just whack less.
    Spot on, there. Dry-fire, and lots of it, is a must - with all guns Glocks and 1911s included.

    There is a trainer here in Michigan (MDFI) that offers a course on fundamentals such as sight alignment and trigger control (less whacking ). It is called, "You Suck, It's Not The Gun!". Funny name, but it's good class though.
    If you have never broken your gun or bled on your gun in training, you're doing it wrong!
    Train hard, live easy.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    I luv u man
    Awww shucks man - I luv u too
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

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