1911 Malfunction Question

I asked this question over on the 1911forum and received very little feedback or comments. I dunno, maybe it's a stupid question.

I own a Colt Lightweight Commander XSE and it generally has run pretty well. Had numberous malfunctions during the first couple of boxes, but pretty reliable since. Anyway....I was shooting this pistol earlier this week and I had two strange malfunctions. The first one malfunction the slide locked back halfway through a 8 round magazine....shooting hardball. I looked up and the next round was just sitting there loose in the chamber.... The second malfunction was similar, but happened on the last round in the mag. I know these can be related to a weak mag spring.

The question I have is this..... Can a 1911 malfunction if pressure is applied to the slidelock/takedown pin on the RIGHT side of the pistol? I'm left handed and my weak hand thumb was extended along side the frame touching the pin on the right side of the slide. If pressure is applied here during the shot cycle, can that make the slide lock back? Trying to diagnose if my two handed grip is causing these malfunctions. Any feedback from 1911 shooters would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Mike

The pressure on the right side would have a hard time of pushing up the slide release. I would look closer at the slide release being really loose and maybe just the recoil is forcing it up sometimes. Maybe take the slide off, then put the slide release back in the frame and wiggle it around...see if it moved up really easy. It shouldn't.

Is it happening with the same magazine or are multiple magazines causing the problem? (And of course, are you using quality mags or some junk that tends to come with guns?)

Pressure from the right side of the pistol shouldn't cause any problems. If it is there's something way out of spec that's going to need more help than a forum could give.

I'd try a new high quality magazine first.

And if you are performance testing your 1911 with Winchester White Box then try something else.

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Originally Posted by QKShooter

I'd try a new high quality magazine first.

And if you are performance testing your 1911 with Winchester White Box then try something else.

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Good advice. I had feed issues whenI first shot my 1911 (Springer Loaded Champ) and Wilson Power mags solved the problem. Even if it is not a magazine issue, you picked up extra mags, always nice to have.

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Originally Posted by QKShooter

I'd try a new high quality magazine first.

And if you are performance testing your 1911 with Winchester White Box then try something else.

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I'm using Wilson 47d's, so I believe I have high quality mags in use. As far as the rounds go....they're my handloads, 5gr Bullseye over a 230 gr jacketed bullet. The curious thing is that I had those failures with hardball, but none with 40 rounds of 230 gr. Speer Gold Dot HP's. I did a little research on the internet and there are some articles saying that hardball rounds may cause a failure if the round comes up and touches the slide lock from inside the frame. I put one round in my mag and pushed it up in the frame and it is incredibile how close the the tip of the round is to the inside slide stop tab. It wouldn't take much out of alignment for the round to push up on the inside tab on the slide lock. The article said this type of failure rarely happens on hollow points because the bullet is shorter.

How many rounds have you fired since you got the gun,and have you ever replaced the recoil spring.
Is the slide locking back with the slide lock lever ? I would insert an empty magazine and see how far the slide lock indent sticks over the magazine follower to see if it is possible that a round could cause it to bump up,or a weak recoil spring can cause a more violent recoil which may be enough to cause the slide stop to engage

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Originally Posted by dukalmighty

How many rounds have you fired since you got the gun,and have you ever replaced the recoil spring.
Is the slide locking back with the slide lock lever ? I would insert an empty magazine and see how far the slide lock indent sticks over the magazine follower to see if it is possible that a round could cause it to bump up,or a weak recoil spring can cause a more violent recoil which may be enough to cause the slide stop to engage

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950 rounds through the pistol to date and no failures with my defensive rounds......all my problems were with hardball. I'm still on the first recoil spring from Colt and yes, the lock back happened with the slide lock lever. As mentioned above, last night I loaded one round in my Wilson mag, locked open the slide and inserted the mag. The side/tip of the bullet was less than a credit card thickness away from the inside the frame slide stop tab. It wouldn't take much to move the bullet over and touch that tab. Another variable I forgot to mention is that I recently slightly increased my load from 4.8 to 5gr of Bullseye powder. There is quite a lot of recoil shooting the LW Commander with this load and it comes close to approximating the recoil I feel with my defensive loads.....that's one reason I increased the powder......I wanted my practice rounds to be closer to my defensive ones. One other question.....my pistol has the full length guide rod (stainless) as it came from Colt. Would going to a G.I. style recoil rod and plug make my pistol more reliable? I've seen lots of arguments on both sides full length vs G.I. style recoil rod. I just find it interesting that my defensive loads cycle fine.....it's my fmj loads that are causing problems.

my guess is that your hardball rounds ARE tripping the slide lock/release, as you surmised. it may be that the overall length of your handloads is slightly longer than factory loads. why not try a few different brands of factory FMJ rounds such as Remington, Federal, Speer, or Winchester and see if you're still having premature slide-lock problems.

it could be that the part of the lever that actually contacts the magazine follower is out of spec (protruding too much into the mag well.) you might try another quality lever (Wilson would be my choice) and see if the problem goes away.

IMO, neither the increased power in your handloads, nor the presence (or absence) of a full-length guide rod is a factor here. i PREFER a full-length guide rod, mostly because every modern SD gun that i know of, has one, but i don't really think it makes any significant difference in a 1911's reliability.

another thought: it could be that your bullets haven't been crimped firmly enough, and that recoil is pulling some of them out just enough to catch the slide release/lock lever. the next time this happens, try to save the cartridge and measure its OAL and see if this has occurred.

if this is the case, then the increased power of your handloads HAS made a difference.

and i don't think this was a 'stupid' question at all. it's a puzzle that's worth solving.

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Originally Posted by sensei2

another thought: it could be that your bullets haven't been crimped firmly enough, and that recoil is pulling some of them out just enough to catch the slide release/lock lever. the next time this happens, try to save the cartridge and measure its OAL and see if this has occurred.

if this is the case, then the increased power of your handloads HAS made a difference.

and i don't think this was a 'stupid' question at all. it's a puzzle that's worth solving.

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sensei2.......great ideas and suggestions. I know the oal of my 45 cartridges run towards the long side (1.275inch), but that's what my Lyman's tells me is the ideal length for my load. I've seen other manuals that indicate a shorter oal. A product insert that came with my Wilson 47d magazines claims that the "ideal" oal for the 45acp round in a 1911's is between 1.24 and 1.26 (with a .468 taper crimp) and that this will provide the best feeding angle. I could shorten my oal to 1.25....that would be a reduction of .025 inches from my current oal. Doesn't seem like that little in oal would make a difference, but maybe it does. My crimp is right on so that shouldn't be an issue. Maybe I will pick up a box of quality 45acp ammo and just check the oal, crimp, etc. and see how it measures up to my handloads... This problem I had has been VERY sporatic....only happened once or twice, but it was disheartening since I was in the process of "qualifying" my Colt for carry and I wasn't expecting ANY malfunctions at this point (nearly 1,000 rounds thusfar). Again, thanks for your well thought out comments.

Regards,

Mike

Sounds like you're getting a handle on the problem. Your load of 5grs Bullseye and a 230 gr HP is just about what I load so I don't think it's that, but if your OAL is too long that could be a problem. Try seating some of the hardball just a little shorter, and I mean a very little shorter as a deeper seated bullet will cause higher pressure. I do find it odd that a Colt doesn't like hardball. Good luck.

Yep, I agree - back off on the OAL a bit. I'm on the road right now, but I believe my max is 1.260", based on the measured length of commercial ball ammo and commercial reloads.

The Lyman manual is certainly a good guide, but I don't rely on a single manual... I have 2 others as well to compare with (Hornady and Lee). Fortunately, for a low-pressure round like the .45 ACP, modest variations in OAL won't cause a big spike in cartridge pressures, but as you've found out may result in functioning problems.

When I started reloading for the .45, I went the opposite route and started at a shorter OAL (around 1.235, I think) and found the rounds didn't feed reliably. That's when I measured several dozen rounds of each type of factory ammo I had on hand, not only to get the OAL but also the typical variation in length. Good info to have on hand for comparing with the rounds you make yourself.

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Originally Posted by gasmitty

Yep, I agree - back off on the OAL a bit. I'm on the road right now, but I believe my max is 1.260", based on the measured length of commercial ball ammo and commercial reloads.

The Lyman manual is certainly a good guide, but I don't rely on a single manual... I have 2 others as well to compare with (Hornady and Lee). Fortunately, for a low-pressure round like the .45 ACP, modest variations in OAL won't cause a big spike in cartridge pressures, but as you've found out may result in functioning problems.

When I started reloading for the .45, I went the opposite route and started at a shorter OAL (around 1.235, I think) and found the rounds didn't feed reliably. That's when I measured several dozen rounds of each type of factory ammo I had on hand, not only to get the OAL but also the typical variation in length. Good info to have on hand for comparing with the rounds you make yourself.

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Yep, I have actually already changed my seating die and have reduced my oal to around 1.25. I loaded 100 last night and checked 10 or so out of the 100 I made and there is some variance....between 1.247 and 1.255, but they are slightly shorter than my previously loaded rounds. I was also going to mention that I've actually had some problems with my Sig P220 Carry with the oal. Sometimes the front of the bullet drags on the inside of the mags making them difficult to load. Never had a malfunction with my Sig, but I suspected all along that I probably should shorten my rounds slightly.

Also check your main spring (recoil spring). If memory serves, 1911 springs are to be replaced every 2-3000 rounds.