Helping my Brother-in-Law

This is a discussion on Helping my Brother-in-Law within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My BIL texted me the other day saying he is looking into getting a semi-auto handgun and was asking my opinion. 40 vs 9, brand, ...

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Thread: Helping my Brother-in-Law

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Helping my Brother-in-Law

    My BIL texted me the other day saying he is looking into getting a semi-auto handgun and was asking my opinion. 40 vs 9, brand, etc.

    My series of questions were along the lines of
    1) What purpose will it fill? On person carry, HD, car, range?
    2) How much does recoil matter to you?
    3) How much or often do you intend to shoot?
    4) What features matter to you? Hammer or striker? Manual safety? DA, SA, both?
    5) Large or small frame? Metal or poly frame? Hi capacity matter?

    After a number of texts and eventually a phone call, it seems he is looking for an all-in-one gun. Something to use at the range, carry (he wants to get his permit), car, while hunting, HD, etc. He prefers larger guns that fit his hands better and he also thinks if it has a lot of recoil he won't shoot it as much as he would like.

    He also said he prefered a striker-fired vs. hammer but after discussing the merits of DA/SA with de-cocker that may not be an issue.

    So, at this point, if he is going to buy only 1 gun to cover all fo these functions then price really isn't as much of an issue. So, I would be leaning towards suggesting an HK P2000 in 9mm. We discussed the merits of many makes, models, and brands and in the end this particular firearm stands out in the crowd.

    Now, let me also say that I personally do not own any HKs but this has me thinking I may have to change that.

    Any HKp2000 owners out there have anything to add? How does the LEM trigger differ from the standard trigger set-up? Does the size and weight of this weapon loaded still lend itself to fairly comfortable carry?

    Clarification: I am just helping him CHOOSE what HE will purchase.
    Last edited by BugDude; October 26th, 2012 at 06:20 AM. Reason: clarification
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    Why would you recommend a pistol you seem to have little, if any first-hand experience with?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Member Array bgusty's Avatar
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    Go out to a range and try several guns of different types and then ask the questions. Shoot a 1911, glock/mp/ xd, sig, and revolver. It will cost probably $100 for all the ammo and range time etc., but it is by far the best thing to do for someone new.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    My BIL texted me the other day saying he is looking into getting a semi-auto handgun and was asking my opinion. 40 vs 9, brand, etc.

    My series of questions were along the lines of
    1) What purpose will it fill? On person carry, HD, car, range?
    2) How much does recoil matter to you?
    3) How much or often do you intend to shoot?
    4) What features matter to you? Hammer or striker? Manual safety? DA, SA, both?
    5) Large or small frame? Metal or poly frame? Hi capacity matter?

    After a number of texts and eventually a phone call, it seems he is looking for an all-in-one gun. Something to use at the range, carry (he wants to get his permit), car, while hunting, HD, etc. He prefers larger guns that fit his hands better and he also thinks if it has a lot of recoil he won't shoot it as much as he would like.

    He also said he prefered a striker-fired vs. hammer but after discussing the merits of DA/SA with de-cocker that may not be an issue.

    So, at this point, if I am going to buy only 1 gun to cover all fo these functions then price really isn't as much of an issue. So, I would be leaning towards suggesting an HK P2000 in 9mm. We discussed the merits of many makes, models, and brands and in the end this particular firearm stands out in the crowd.

    Now, let me also say that I personally do not own any HKs but this has me thinking I may have to change that.

    Any HKp2000 owners out there have anything to add? How does the LEM trigger differ from the standard trigger set-up? Does the size and weight of this weapon loaded still lend itself to fairly comfortable carry?
    This is for your BIL, right? I hope you are not intending to purchase it for him. That's a straw purchase and illegal.

    Based on the parameters presented, many options would work. My personal choice for these uses is a G19. Were it me with these objectives, I couldn't think of a better choice, but that's my choice.
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    Walther PPQ.
    Under no circumstances should you purchase a firearm for your brother-in-law.
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    Even though there are provisions for "Gifting" firearms to Family Members being that it's your BIL I wouldn't even think about it,help him choose a gun,but he fills out the form.(NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU MAY KNOW SOMEBODY THERE MAY BE SOMETHING IN HIS PAST THAT PREVENTS HIM FROM OWNING A FIREARM) If you buy a gun for a prohibited person you can kiss your guns and any future guns good-bye.
    I would definitely point him to a 9mm,I like the Glock/M&P/XD line of guns,Same trigger pull for each shot
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    Just so we are very clear, purchasing even for someone who is not a prohibited person is still a straw purchase.
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  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    When you described his responses, the H&K P2000 and Glock 17 came to mind.

    I think the P2000 would be an excellent choice. It has many things right, irrespective of whether he'll find the grip/ergonomics to be his cup of tea.

    I've owned one H&K: a P2000 SK 9mm, LEM/DAO trigger. Wonderful gun.

    The SK is the compact version. The larger-sized P2000 would allow for a full-sized grip. IMO, it's got a great grip angle, points naturally (for me), is dead nuts reliable, is fairly accurate. The magazines are released by a paddle-style ambidextrous button, which not everyone initially likes. But it's a bulletproof design that's hard to fail. Insertion of magazines is simple and positive. It's relatively lighter as compared to full-steel competitors.

    The LEM trigger is a good one, I'd say. As with any gun prior to going through a break-in, it's not exactly smooth as glass. But IMO it's better than most. H&K also has a lighter-than-factory pull weight that can be installed (via swap of a few springs). While I still tend to be more accurate with a DA/SA (on subsequent SA pulls) than with the average DAO, the LEM isn't far behind. With the lighter-than-factory pull, I wouldn't be surprised if it were just as accurate for me.

    The P2000 sounds like a great choice, to me.

    And if H&K's are being considered, don't forget the USP line, including the HK45/HK45C. Good options, all of them.
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    9mm isn't a caliber i would go hunting with ....but an XD/glock or M&P would seem to fit your BIL nicelywith hunting being the exception i also seriously agree with BGUSTY if you want to help him take him to the range and have him shoot a variety of guns in differing calibers

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I am NOT buying a gun for him. I am helping him CHOOSE which one HE should buy. Over Thanksgiving I am taking several back home with me for him to try when we go to the range and we are going to rent some others for him to try also.

    I don't have an HK, but I have rented and shot a HK P 2000 sk at a range I used to frequent when I lived in Virginia. That's the basis of my experience that perhaps he would like the non-subcompact version.

    Also, he is not going to hunt WITH the pistol, but something to carry concealed while he is hunting.
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    No experience with the HK, but it also sounds like the CZ75 P-01 would fit his needs/wants too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    No experience with the HK, but it also sounds like the CZ75 P-01 would fit his needs/wants too.
    Yes. Many of the CZ 75 flavors should do wonderfully well, given the specs. Great ergonomics, exceptional reliability, great accuracy. And light enough (in the P-01 variant) to be easily carried all day long.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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    Glock 17 or 19, 19 would probably be easier to carry and conceal.
    I love my HK .45 USP C, and do carry it, but without any prior experience with the 2000 I couldn't recommend it.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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    The OP clearly stated he is not buying and only helping choose a handgun for his BIL, nothing wrong with that at all; none of us would want to be involved in a straw purchase, but you can legitimately purchase a gun as a gift.

    Here is a pdf file from the ATF that is apparently designed to help FFL dealers watch for potential straw purchases.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...-purchases.pdf

    Here's another piece of info that discusses straw purchase or gift:
    This is from the current guide for FFL’s regarding straw purchases and gifts. NOTE: It is not the exact evidence discussed in trial, but should give you an idea of the fine line differences between straw purchaser and gift under current guidelines.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    15. STRAW PURCHASES

    Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a “straw purchaser” (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee’s business premises is located.

    Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

    In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser’s residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee’s business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms from the licensee.

    An example of an illegal straw purchase is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out Form 4473, he violates the law by falsely stating that he is the actual buyer of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates the law because he has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of false statements on the form.

    Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above example, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form 4473.

    The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer’s records.
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    I have and carry a HK P2000sk. 40 Light LEM. I alternate between pocket carry and OWB carry with X-grip and the P2000 12-round magazine. There is no safety on this pistol or its big brother P2000. A very smooth shooting .40. It also comes in DA/SA also. My best friend has the P2000. 40, which is his issued duty gun for Homeland Security. I watched another buddy of mine shoot my HK and witnessed.
    , NO muzzle flip that you always hear about with. 40 ammo. The recoil system on HK pistols is fabulous.

    I also have the HK 45C, another fine weapon! Anything HK in my opinion is top notch!

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