This is a discussion on So...are the H&K's really worth that much more? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by wsquared I would respectfully disagree with you. Not that the Glock is not a good choice, just that the HK is also ...
As far as claiming that "Glock is more ergonomic for most of the people"....do you have any information to base that on?
Do you know someone who carries HK cocked and locked? I do not know.
"As far as claiming that "Glock is more ergonomic for most of the people"....do you have any information to base that on?"
Yes, a lot of friends that have fired with HK and Glock. :D
May I also politely suggest that you're going to have to do better than "a lot of friends" if you're going to state that Glock is more ergonomic for most of the people? By "better" I'm suggesting that you'll need to provide a large sample size, more specific data, and some evidence of objectivity. However, if what you really mean to say is "I prefer the Glock I own to the H&K that I've tried", then please just say that plainly.
JD....it is my considered opinion that you have far too many HK45's, and such a concentration of great pistols in one person's hands is altogether excessive. I represent the 99% of shooters that don't own 3 HK's, and I am calling for a more equitable re-distribution of HK's. If you fail to send me at least one of your HK's, I will start a non-violent protest by "occupying" my living room and singing protest songs (by such notable social activists as the Rolling Stones and ZZ Top). I will resolutely occupy my position until such time as my supply of freshly roasted coffee beans runs out....at which time I will start making an unholy noise and informing any government official that will listen to me that it is their responsiblity to tend to my needs, supply me with tasty food, and ensure that the thermostat is set to a comfortable level.
Nope. Even after a year, it still sounds ridiculous. Worth a try though. What sort of RDS do you have on there?
I will also say that despite the high bore axis and manual safety, that I can out shoot a lot of people with them.
I'm nowhere near this good...but here is video of Todd Green shooting the HK45 in LEM with a sub 2 second Bill Drill (draw and fire 6rds), I don't think the high bore axis bothered him either.
I understand the mechanics of the high bore axis, but the more and more I see of the argument and the better I get at shooting, the more I see people making excuses or just not learning how to run a pistol.
I'm no Todd Green but I can still pull off a sub 3 second bill drill with a stock cocked and locked P30S. I can't wait to run some more drills with my tuned P30LS.
Sent via Tapatalk 2, and still using real words.
Leupold Delta Point with the 7.5MOA triangle, more on it can be read here:
Bowie Tactical Concepts HK P30S w/ Delta Point RDS
It does seem to be a recurring trend that people have to put much more effort into picking apart guns like H&K's and sigs than owners of the guns have to put in to learning how to run the guns effectively.
sent via iCarry
I also carry my HK cocked and locked. But that's the great thing about them; they're so compatible with other guns. Say your EDC is an HK variant 1. Your bug could be mini 1911, or a CZ Rami or something so you would carry the HK cocked and locked. Or alternately, if your bug is a baby Glock, you could carry your HK with the DA first pull so you could train the same way. That's one of their many virtues in my opinion.
And yeah, JD, your set of HKs is awesome. I guess I would qualify for that 1% of shooters with 3 Hk's if I could count my PTR-91. I am going to get another HK in the next year or so, but haven't decided if it will the the P30L or the full size 45. Decisions, decisions.
I should preface my thoughts by saying that I'm not really the type to be sentimental about firearms or buy one over the other because of how I feel about the country where they're made, whoever made them, etc. I'm going to shoot a bunch of rounds through it and expect it to work or I'll get rid of it. I used to have a bunch of handguns. Quite a collection. I was gone 3/4 of the time from 2002-2011 packing guns I didn't buy so I slowly passed most on to friends at discount prices. Just no reason to have all those handguns. The ones I kept probably show which ones I think are the best. HK USP .45 I bought in 1997, Glock 19 I bought in 1995 and Glock 30 I bought in 2003.
Why I kept the USP, well it's hard to say exactly. It's too big. I can (and do) carry it concealed but you always know it's there, and it requires a near hyperextension of the shoulder to get that muzzle clear of the holster. The DA trigger sucks, too heavy, slack, gritty, but I'm used to it and handle it ok. The magazines are AWFUL. They wear out and stop locking the slide back every year or so it seems, replacing them is way more expensive than it should be, and the newer ones all make this annoying clinking sound when loaded with more than 10 rounds and inserted in the weapon. They put this stupid finger rest on the new ones too, just making the butt harder to conceal. You'd have to have hands the size of a catcher's mitt for your pinky to rest on that finger thing on the mag. Stupid.
I've put thousands of rounds through that USP. The finish on top of the barrel is worn through and polished shiny. The slide shows significant wear from years in and out of the holster. It just had it's first malfunction (first ever) about 6 months ago when I dropped the hammer on a live round and nothing happened. When I picked up the round off the floor and reloaded it, it went off, and hasn't happened since, so that was probably on the ammo. I've accomplished feats of accuracy with that USP that are legendary with my friends, I mean 100 yards plus. Everything from skeet to a roadrunner. I absolutely trust it to shoot when I want it to and I absolutely trust it to hit what I aim at.
Hard part about answering your question though, it was worth the the $$$ to me. Is it worth it in general? Probably not. I paid like 400 dollars for that Glock 19. It's a 9mm so guess which one has fired more rounds over the years. Only malfunctions can be attributed to running ammo I shouldn't have been, like a friend's bag of million year old, bulging reloads that I had to force into the chamber by hitting the slide forward. Not sure how many rounds it's fired but it would have to be into six figures. I still have the (original) high-capacity mags I bought when I got the Glock (It came with 10 rounders) and they still work great. The finish has held up better than the HK. My Glock 19 would look brand new if it wasn't a Gen 2 and obviously old. It is not as accurate as the HK but look at the size difference. It is still very accurate. I trust it to shoot every time, and, at least for defensive purposes, to hit what I aim at.
So, in summary, yeah, the HKs probably are not worth the cost. You can get a perfectly serviceable weapon for much less. However, if you buy one, you'll probably feel like it was worth it anyway.
HK P30 Enhancements
I have been carrying a 9mm HK P30 for my primary pistol for a while after having epic issues with my last newly purchased Glock 19. I have been very happy with the HK P30 with its out of the box performance. It is disturbingly reliable, has consistent and very positive extraction and ejection (even without a magazine), is more mechanically accurate than its more popular competitors, and actually doesn’t need anything done to carry as a working pistol. Mine is a V2 LEM that is the heavier of the LEM set-ups.Darryl Bolke is a retired SoCal police officer who spent 17 years assigned to SWAT as a firearms instructor and primary instructor on all firearm systems. Darryl also authored and created a program for L/E edged weapons use and issue knives for all officers, and assisted in the design of several knives. Darryl has worked several years on various private sector investigation and protection details, is a Pro Staffer for L/E with Aimpoint, and is the co-owner of Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS).
I think I have an HK problem.
I was in Gander Mountain today, and I picked up an HK45c. It's almost identical in size to my USPc, and holds 5 fewer rounds...but I honestly have to admit that I like the HK45 even more than the USP. I also like the idea of .45ACP in a defensive situations. Yes, I know that 9mm is perfectly adequate and shot placement is far more important than caliber choice....but I honestly shoot just as well with the 45c as I do with my 9mm USPc - and I shoot better with the full sized HK45 than I do with my 9mm USPc.
I guess I can just hope (for my wallet's sake) that's it's a while before I see a full-sized HK45 sitting on a shelf, looking lonely.
Ha! Told ya you'd like it! (post #83)
Don't you find that the .45c feels slimmer than the blocky USPc? I love them both, but carry the .45 more comfortably. I too, am looking to acquire the full-size 45. I've admitted to myself it's just a matter of time and there's nothing I'll be able to do about it when opportunity and cash converge.
Anyway, enjoy and congrats!
Yes, you did very definitely tell me. My hand is happy that you did....and my banker is irritated.