So...are the H&K's really worth that much more? - Page 8

So...are the H&K's really worth that much more?

This is a discussion on So...are the H&K's really worth that much more? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I dont support a company who makes statements that citizens shouldnt be armed, but yet sells them to the American market....

Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 121
Like Tree42Likes

Thread: So...are the H&K's really worth that much more?

  1. #106
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    404
    I dont support a company who makes statements that citizens shouldnt be armed, but yet sells them to the American market.
    bigmacque and C hawk Glock like this.
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike


  2. #107
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    I dont support a company who makes statements that citizens shouldnt be armed, but yet sells them to the American market.

    That's an interesting post, and a point to consider seriously. Can you provide some supporting documentation that shows they feel this way? I'd be very interested in that.

    Thanks.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  3. #108
    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    596
    In a quick answer, yes. They are intricately designed and machined, only the best of raw materials used. Labor in production is intensive and expensive, as they are German after all. That said, you can have a quality, dependable weapon for less money by purchasing say, a Glock (which is made next door in Austria).
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

    Flight Surgeon, USAF
    Law Enforcement Tactical Surgeon

    NRA Patron Member

  4. #109
    Senior Member
    Array bombthrower77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    I dont support a company who makes statements that citizens shouldnt be armed, but yet sells them to the American market.
    Here's Hk's public statement, just to clear things up:


    “Some readers have misinterpreted a recent feature story in RECOIL magazine as a reflection of HK policy. Heckler & Koch has a long presence in the US civilian market and throughout that time has been an ardent and passionate supporter of the Second Amendment and the American civilian shooter. This will always be the case. The contents, opinions, and statements expressed in that feature story are those of the writer, not Heckler and Koch’s. Additionally, the writer and RECOIL magazine have issued a clarification and apology for the ill-chosen words used in the story.

    “The HK MP7A1 4.6 mm Personal Defense Weapon mentioned in the story is a selective-fire product (capable of “full automatic” fire) and is currently restricted to military and law enforcement agencies by BATF. HK-USA has previously researched introducing similar commercial products, chambered in 4.6 mm, but it was determined that the final product would not have enough appeal or be legally feasible.”



    Read more: Recoil Magazine Stirs Outrage with H&K MP7 Remarks - Guns & Ammo
    ripley16 and bigmacque like this.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  5. #110
    Senior Member
    Array bombthrower77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    I owned an HK USP 40 for some time. It was a fine piece to be sure. Had a great double tap reset. Ran like a sewing machine. I found it to be an incredibly boring gun. I can't it explain it but it had the sex appeal of a dogs breakfast. It was too big for reasonable concealment and too light weight in caliber for a field gun. It simply didn't fit regardless of the quality. It's gone and still sitting in my LGS display case. For 2 years now. They come and go. Try it, you may like it. I just don't have the funds to keep "never gonna use it" guns unless there's something sentimental involved.

    BTW, sex appeal in a gun, for me, comes in many ways. It's not just about appearance. But dependability alone didn't define sexy. Mixed with ability to conceal.....that would have gone a long way. One final comment; HK has a proprietary rail and for reasons that I can't explain that really chapped me. And I don't even use rails.
    Well it is a .40. All the power and half less capacity than 9mm+p that will shoot forever in an HK.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  6. #111
    Senior Member Array Herknav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Waypoint 0
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    The USP has a proprietary rail and for reasons that I can't explain that really chapped me. And I don't even use rails.
    FIFY. Not all HK rails are proprietary. They seem to have switched over to standard rails after the USP.
    I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth.--Steve McQueen

  7. #112
    Member Array Pearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ansible
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-JB View Post
    I have an H&K USP45c and I agree with GlassWolf. They do offer many upgraded features and absolute reliability. For one my USP45c has a hammer forged barrel which contributes greatly to accuracy. It can be carried cocked n locked as well as SA/DA. Another feature I really like is that when fired to slide lock, inserting a fresh mag releases the slide chambering a round....
    Hmm...was thinking that is largely what a CZ-75 does for $460.

  8. #113
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    Here's Hk's public statement, just to clear things up:


    “Some readers have misinterpreted a recent feature story in RECOIL magazine as a reflection of HK policy. Heckler & Koch has a long presence in the US civilian market and throughout that time has been an ardent and passionate supporter of the Second Amendment and the American civilian shooter. This will always be the case. The contents, opinions, and statements expressed in that feature story are those of the writer, not Heckler and Koch’s. Additionally, the writer and RECOIL magazine have issued a clarification and apology for the ill-chosen words used in the story.

    “The HK MP7A1 4.6 mm Personal Defense Weapon mentioned in the story is a selective-fire product (capable of “full automatic” fire) and is currently restricted to military and law enforcement agencies by BATF. HK-USA has previously researched introducing similar commercial products, chambered in 4.6 mm, but it was determined that the final product would not have enough appeal or be legally feasible.”



    Read more: Recoil Magazine Stirs Outrage with H&K MP7 Remarks - Guns & Ammo

    Thanks for that clarification, i appreciate it.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

  9. #114
    Member Array wsquared's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    371
    Quote Originally Posted by GunsAndViolince View Post
    Ha! Told ya you'd like it! (post #83)

    Don't you find that the .45c feels slimmer than the blocky USPc? I love them both, but carry the .45 more comfortably. I too, am looking to acquire the full-size 45. I've admitted to myself it's just a matter of time and there's nothing I'll be able to do about it when opportunity and cash converge.

    Anyway, enjoy and congrats!

    Gav
    I didn't get the chance to pick up the 45C until yesterday, and I took it to the range today.

    I don't know that it feels any slimmer in my hand (I did put on the larger of the two backstraps), but I do know that I really, really like it. It feels great in my hand, and I think I shoot it better than my USPc. Not by a massive margin...but my groups seem just a wee bit tighter. And (no surprise), the pistol was 100% reliable. Even when I +1'd the pistol, the mag seated without any difficulty.

    I don't find that the grip is quite as "grippy" as the stippling on the USPc - but that's a relatively easy fix. Skateboard tape is a wonderful thing.

  10. #115
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by svgheartland View Post
    I owned an HK USP 40 for some time. It was a fine piece to be sure. Had a great double tap reset. Ran like a sewing machine. I found it to be an incredibly boring gun. I can't it explain it but it had the sex appeal of a dogs breakfast.
    Well, you know, it is...well........German, after all. I like a sexy gun but don't really require it to float my boat that way, it just needs to go bang, und right avay vann I am pullen za trigger sing! So bin ich nun mal (German for, "That's how I roll." Roughly translated).

    wsquared, glad to hear you're enjoying your .45c. I should have been clearer, I meant if feels slimmer to me in the holster, but then that could be just me.

  11. #116
    Member Array vanbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by pscipio03 View Post
    Forgot to add that my HK is the one pistol that stays in my bedside safe for home protection. All the others stay in the big safe. It's the one I trust to go bang the most, and I love the decocker ability.
    Ditto... my HK45 is the primary home defense weapon.

    I can't really say why I bought it over anything else at the time, I simply wanted another .45 auto, with a higher capacity than my 1911, and read nothing but great things about USP's. The HK45 had just come out then, so thought I'd go for that.

    Bottom line is that I LOVE shooting it, and tend to shoot this over every other handgun. The ergonomics are perfect for me, and it's shockingly accurate, even with cheap ammo. If it wasn't such a beast of a gun, I'd carry this gun... a tad hard to conceal, at 6' tall, 155lbs though.

  12. #117
    Member Array ChrisMia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by vanbo View Post
    Ditto... my HK45 is the primary home defense weapon.

    I can't really say why I bought it over anything else at the time, I simply wanted another .45 auto, with a higher capacity than my 1911, and read nothing but great things about USP's. The HK45 had just come out then, so thought I'd go for that.

    Bottom line is that I LOVE shooting it, and tend to shoot this over every other handgun. The ergonomics are perfect for me, and it's shockingly accurate, even with cheap ammo. If it wasn't such a beast of a gun, I'd carry this gun... a tad hard to conceal, at 6' tall, 155lbs though.
    Same here - my P2000 sleeps in my nightstand, while all others are in the safe. Such a spectacularly reliable and accurate gun that it's almost boring . . . almost.

  13. #118
    Member Array 45ACPonly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Undecided
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by Coltman 77 View Post
    HK's are worth every penny. Accuracy and especially total reliability are what we bet our lives on when we choose a firearm to protect us and our family.

    Here's a great post from a friend who "knows" HK's very well. I'd like to share it with you.

    Why HK pistols (and HK firearms in general) are more expensive than their competitors.

    1. Most are designed, built and tested to NATO MIL specs (ACC-225), not commercial specs. NATO specs includes tests not conducted by many commercial makers such as drop tests, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static sand, OTB, elevated/depressed, etc.

    2. All (100%) of HK firearms are test fired and zeroed at the factory. In some companies only a % are tested.

    3. HK materials (steel, barrel, etc.) are of the highest quality available and it shows in long-term or worst case scenarios. The superior barrel performance is a good example, though you may never see it in casual use.

    4. HK pistols are not assembled by armorers’ students and then sold to customers. Some companies have been known to do so.

    5. The average German worker is paid at a far higher rate than the equivalent US worker. Part of the reasons why includes the mandatory training they must receive and tests they must pass before receiving the position. The cost of living in Germany is also higher and HK contributes to a substantial “Pensioner Fund” for its retirees. Many also work at the same company for decades and not uncommon are 40 year employees!) and therefore rise high on the pay scale for their extensive hard-earned skill and experience.

    6. HK barrels are made by a cold hammer forged process using a material that is unique to HK guns. Many barrels get special HK-unique steps added such as a tapered, poly, hybrid poly bore profile or induction hardening and all long-gun barrels are straightened. As an example, Stelite liners are not used in HK MG barrels – they are simply not needed and perform as well or better.

    7. Compare the polymer molding and machining of say an HK P30 and a SIG P229. It is RARE to see machining marks on an HK.

    8. HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. HK also takes and test its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama). That costs BIG bucks but pays off in hard core performance.

    9. HK guns are imported for the most part (or the parts used to assemble them in NH) are imported. That results in mandatory FET, freight and exchange rate subsidies being added and passed on to the customer. HK as a German gun maker and importer they also have to comply with stringent export controls and that too costs money, which gets passed along in sale prices.

    10. The cost of the production tooling (and materials) used by HK to produce, assemble and QA product is high as it includes QA tests and steps not conducted by many other makers. HK cut its teeth as a mass producer and still today builds the production tooling with that in mind – high volumes with a lot of automation. That tooling and gauging costs money as does the high hourly rates of the skilled workers and the additional time required to conduct it.

    11. 10-20% of HK’s annual operating budget is spent on its extensive “Technique” departments to include Design, Prototype Fabrication and the Firing Lab. These are the highest paid, most skilled workers at HK and that costs money as well. They are best of breed and always have many more projects up in the air then you might think, or know of (Phased Plasma Rifle in the 80 watt Range).

    12. HK places itself purposely in the “higher end” of the market. Like BMW and Mercedes HK knows it rates are higher and always will be compared to say Colt, S&W, Beretta, etc. So they go after superior performance and quality at a higher price point to fewer purchasers versus a cheaper, lower quality product to more buyers.

    13. @ 15% of HK annual revenue is reinvested in new products, and infrastructure. While that may not seem like a lot it is and the state of the factory at in Oberndorf shows it. Look at the state of their competitors factories. There are few that compare to HK GmbH in the eyes of those who have been to many others. HK spends the revenue it makes off of both commercial and Government sales on new product so in a way the US commercial buyer who purchases an HK45 pistol helps fund the development of the MG4 LMG or XM25.

    14. HK builds much of the weapon parts in house to maintain quality control. While cheaper subs are available one loses some control in doing so. HK’s goal has always been to minimize cost but maintain quality and to do so it keeps many items in house that in many others companies go to the higher bidder (magazines, small piece parts, etc.). HK also has some of the very best MIM and molding capabilities and can thus up the quality of their product by using their own, superior product.

    15. Like HK, HK’s subs are of a higher quality for the same reasons and with the same end results. You buy the very best frame mold in Germany, it will cost you but the end product is superior.

    16. Interchangeable parts – very few HK parts are not fully interchangeable without hand fitting. Even in a gun like the GMG, there are no parts that require hand fitting. This requires that each and every raw material and finished part, and each tool that fabricates the part, is dimensionally and exactly the same and maintained the same at all time by constant checks by skilled personnel with high dollar measuring devices and gauges. Again something you may never see but it insures when you replace a part it both fits and works w/o modifications.

    17. HK has voluntarily developed, tested and included in their product unique features like USP firing mode modularity, MK23 barrel O-rings, special high performance finishes, unique G36/HK416 gas systems, drop-in LEM trigger systems, side-loading 40mm grenade launchers, GMG’s with extruded aluminum receivers and HK211’s with Ti receivers, unique cartridges for things like MP7 and P46, etc. HK also makes over 100 models of HK firearms currently and 1000’s of modular variants for users the world over speaking many languages, which costs money to build, inventory, document and record these countless production variations.

    There are a few other reasons which I will not mention here.

    Hope this helps.

    G3Kurz
    Some can say the same for GM as for as pension, training, higher wages, etc. And we know how wonderful its products are. BMW and Mercedes are the the same things.

    Fortunately, not a lot can go wrong with a gun so H&K is safe. Are its guns worth the price? If I carry it for a living and they fit me well, they can charge me twice the current price and I will gladly pay; a right tool can make a job a lot easier. Since I don't carry for living and I am still figuring out what will work, it is debatable. For the record, my carry gun now costs significantly more than H&K so cost is never an issue. As for Glocks, they are meant for large hands. M&P is next on my list to try. I like large guns, even for conceal carry; therefore, not every gun can be a candidate. I may very likely get another one of my my primary gun while it is not yet ban.

  14. #119
    Member Array Hobo_Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by frenchman View Post
    German engineering alone is worth a premium. H&K, SIG, Korth, you name it. I'd drop the money in a heartbeat if I had it.
    Not to mention Walther.

    Though I think SIG is actually Swiss.
    You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass. --Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. --Albert Einstein
    You taught us to imagine, and we imagined your irrelevance! --Dalek Caan

  15. #120
    JD
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo_Hunter View Post
    Not to mention Walther.

    Though I think SIG is actually Swiss.

    http://www.sigsauer.com/AboutUs/History.aspx

    In 1853, Friedrich Peyer im Hof, Heinrich Moser and Conrad Neher began what they thought would become a successful wagon factory above the Rhine Falls in Switzerland. Little did they know then, that their company would become one of the world's most renowned manufacturers of small arms. Just seven years after constructing an industrial plant for building the most sophisticated wagons and railway cars, the three ambitious owners undertook a more serious venture. In part to a challenge from Switzerland's Federal Ministry of Defense, the Swiss Wagon Factory entered the competition to develop a state-of-the-art rifle with the hopes the Swiss Army would adopt it. Four years later, the award went to the Swiss Wagon Factory for its Prelaz-Burnand rifle. At this point, the Swiss Wagon Factory, with an order for 30,000 muzzle loading Prelaz-Burnand rifles in hand, changed the name of the company to the Swiss Industrial Company - Schweizerische Industrie-Gesellschaft, known worldwide as SIG.

    Fast-forward to the 20th century. The SIG P49, the forerunner of the SIG P210, was developed for the Swiss Army and destined to become a legend on the battlefield as well as the competition field. The P220 made its appearance as the new pistol for the army, soon followed by the compact P230 for the Swiss police. These pistols offered new features and levels of reliability never before seen in the industry. By the 1970's, SIG's small arms division was expanding to include Hämmerli Target Arms from Lenzburg, Switzerland, and J.P. Sauer & Sohn, GmbH, of Eckernförde, West Germany, known worldwide for their hunting rifles. In the 1980's, SIG set its sights on the United States of America.

Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

h&k mr762a1 for sale

,
h&k mr762a1 review
,
h&k p30 review
,

hk mr762a1 for sale

,
hk mr762a1 magazines for sale
,
hk mr762a1 review
,

hk p30 review

,
hk p30 reviews
,
hk p30 worth the money
,
is hk worth the money
,
mr762a1 for sale
,
mr762a1 review
Click on a term to search for related topics.