Ah, THAT'S how ya get compacity!
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Ah, THAT'S how ya get compacity!
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
Capacity since it is a 9mm, I prefer as many bullets as I can get in my weapon.
Reminiscent of the Mexican beer guy, "I don't always shoot people, but when I do, I shoot them very hard." Caliber - actually 'stopping power' - is preferred in my world. My last employ didn't allow me the luxury of missing much.
Anyone Worth Shooting Is Worth Shooting Well
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I live in Florida where you have to stand in line for three hours to make any decision, so I'd just buy both and skip the line.
Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.
I tend to go for larger caliber.
Awhile back, I let a shot timer convince me that a 9mm was better due to speed of 2nd shot.
However, when I took the total time involved to get the two shots on target, the .1 of a second difference of 2nd shot time was diminished.
Glock 26 or 27? Give me the 27.
Glock 19 or 23? Give me the 23.
Like I said, I tend to go for larger caliber. At 6 -7 yards the accuracy difference is... equal ... I can usually keep both quick shots on a 6'' circle.
Glock 29 SF or 30 SF??? Dang, now that's tough.
No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!
Most stats I have seen indicate that while larger calibers have a slight edge over 9mm in stopping power, in real gunfights people quite often miss their targets. In cities where they keep records on this like LA and NY, it appears that cops only hit about 35% of the time. This being the case, IMHO, you are more likely to get an advantage from additional capacity rather than slightly better terminal ballistics, since an opportunity to hit with a 9 because you still have rounds left in your gun beats not having any 40 or 45 left in your gun.
Excuse me for a moment.
Now, where were we?
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
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With my Sig P250s I can change calibers to fit the situation. So, everyday is 9mm, if I feel a little more horsepower is needed I'll Change it to 40S&W but that is 3 less bullets. The full size came 45acp and that is the bang needed to stop someone on PCP or Bathsalts (they are like superman when doped up. If I don't care if it goes through the side of a car the 357Sig.
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15+1 in my 9mm -and if that don't work my Stoeger is so heavy I will beat you to death with it ......:)
I saw an interesting demonstration where a serious shooter (by that I mean competitive) run the same scenario with three different calipers in the same pistol. I think it was s Beretta sponsored video, if you want to look for it online.
Anyway, the shooter went for best time on three targets (if memory serves me), and points off for shots off COM or head, depending on how far off. Points were converted to time penalties.
The lower capacity of the 45 forced a mag drop reload. I recall the 9mm being the fastest and most accurate. When he tried to match the 9mm pace with the 40, he went points down. The low capacity made it impossible to match the pace of either.
When talking about really low capacity, my intellect leads me to the 9mm, but that XDS is sweet, so my heart would push me in that direction. Ultimately, I'm uber-practical, so I go with a full size 9mm, and just deal with the extra weight and bulk so that I can do 1 inexpensive shooting gun for carrying , practicing, and competing.
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
I think more than caliber is involved.
As I posted here in a different thread, I bought a Glock 36. Traded the M&P Shield in on it when I decided the Shield was an excellent gun but brought nothing to the table better than my Glock 26, so I traded it for a Glock 36. A guy ought to have at least one .45ACP, right? (You want rationalizations, I got 'em, but won't take the space with them here.)
In any event, shooting the G36 has been a learning experience. The following is a comparison between it and the Glock 19 with the 26 included for fun. Why the 19? Not really a fair comparison with the 26. The 36 is closer to the size of the Glock 19 than the Glock 26. If one can hide a 36, one can hide the 19. It's that simple. The pertinent data:
Conclusions so far:
- The Glock 36 has a 6 round magazine + 1 up the pipe, total 7 rounds. The 19 is 15 in the mag (in PA anyway) + 1 in the chamber so it holds 16 rounds. The 26 is 10+1 and smaller in length and height than either of them, same thickness.
- Both my 19 and 26 shoot double taps really well - when I'm in practice, double taps separated by less than 2" are routine with both these pistols. I don't shoot double taps with the 36 worth beans. Have a hard time keeping them both on the target, never mind in COM. Best I've ever done is about 9" apart and that was dumb luck.
- Slow fire, a shot every 3/4 second or so - it's more than a half second split time but less than a second - I shoot the 19 and 26 equally well at expected self defense distances (touching to 7 yards). I shoot the 19 slightly better at 10 and 15 yards. Amazingly enough, I shoot the 36 almost as well as the 19 and 26 slow fire at 0 to 7 yards. Not quite as well as the 26 at 10 and 15 yards.
So, for what it's worth, there will be an XDs in .45ACP waiting for me Christmas morning. I didn't wait for the 9mm version because I don't think 7 rounds of 9mm is better than 6 rounds of .45ACP provided one shoots the .45 like it needs to be shot.
- One shoots a .45 differently than a 9mm. Double taps are pretty much the standard fare with a 9mm because:
- They are easy to do well with a 9 because it has so much less recoil. The key is to pull the trigger as fast as I can and almost always that will result in the second shot being someplace close to the first, at least that's how it works for me with the 19 and 26. I actually do double taps best with the 26.
- The 9mm pistols hold lots of ammo so shooting two at a time isn't a big penalty.
- Double taps have proven to be very effective when it comes to stopping an assailant's attack.
- People tend to think of 9mm ammo being less effective than the big stuff like .45ACP. The 'colonel' thought any fighting cartridge started with a '4'. This is pretty much a myth, but it's true, .45 cartridges have more stopping power than 9mm cartridges, all other things being equal, which, of course, they never are.
- The way to shoot and practice with a .45ACP is slow fire with shots happening in the 3/4 second range with the split tuned to the individual shooter/pistol combination. This is true because:
- Magazine capacity is so limited, misses are a much bigger deal with a .45. Double taps lead to misses with the guns heavier recoil, at least in my hands.
- Shot placement trumps everything and it's much much better slow fire than rapid fire with the recoil of a .45 in a carry gun. A .45 in a non vital area isn't as effective as a .380 or 9mm in a vital area. Making every shot count is vital when magazine capacity is limited. When one has 11 or 16 shots available with out reloading, double taps are acceptable. That's the double tap equivalent of the 6 to 8 single shots available in a .45 of similar size.
- Even full size 1911 .45's only hold 9 rounds. I couldn't hide one of those on my body. However, the Glock 30 holds 11 rounds and the Glock 21 holds 14 rounds. I could hide a Glock 30 but not as easily as I can hide the 19 because it is about 1/8" thicker and noticeably heavier. I've never fired either a 21 or a 30 but I'm pretty sure from watching them on YouTube I'd find them to be slow fire guns as well.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"Sigmund Freud
If one says a 45 over a 9mm because of the scary bad increase in potential stopping power, then really, the debate over stopping power ends at a 12 gauge. Because the stopping power gap between a shotgun and a 45 is bigger than a 45 to a 22.