Bad Hands and FN FIVE-SEVEN?

Bad Hands and FN FIVE-SEVEN?

This is a discussion on Bad Hands and FN FIVE-SEVEN? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know this has been discussed to death but if you'll bear with me: I just found out some hand-pain from shooting my new S&W ...

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Thread: Bad Hands and FN FIVE-SEVEN?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Bad Hands and FN FIVE-SEVEN?

    I know this has been discussed to death but if you'll bear with me: I just found out some hand-pain from shooting my new S&W 625 JM 45acp revolver is not just from recoil (and holding the grip too high which I did the first two times I shot it).

    After a wait of 2 weeks, I went to range again and shot 2 other guns, 45acp semi-auto and my hand began to hurt after a few rounds where I had injured it between thumb and trigger-finger - where the back of the hilt hits - so I switched to 38spl gun and after 20 rounds that hurt too, same place, so I went home. Later I saw large swelling at base of shooting hand thumb and couple of days after the non-dominant hand's thumb began to hurt at same place. Couldn't figure how recoil would do anything down there.

    My doctor examined hands and said it was arthritis of the Basal joints both hands, worse on shooting-hand, fairly common place to get it. He does not want me shooting this gun again and ordered X-Rays to stage the damage. Great! I just got this gun, new in box, in an even trade, it has about 150 rounds thru it, if that. I may wait and try non-wood grips altho the woods are beautiful on this gun. I hate to just dump it.

    Anyway, in the future (or now) I may not be able to shoot this gun or, likely as well in the future, any 45acp or 357 Mag. Depressing. Who knows if I'll be able to shoot period down the line...

    I thought of easy recoil guns if it comes to that and so the FN FiveSeveN came to mind. I know there is controversy over quick stopping power with this gun but there are many war vets who work at my range and they all gave thumbs up on gun and round; the easy recoil, light weight part of this gun are ideal. The rest: "?"

    So, don't want to cause terrible arguments but any have the FN or have shot it or have a knowledgeable opinion of its power for CCW use?

    Thanks very much.

    (Age should be outlawed.)


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I don't know anyhing about the Five Seven, but I too could use a dip in the ole fountain of youth.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Hm. Pain's a tricky thing. Alternatives would depend on whether the pain can be gotten around.

    With the S&W 625, the 40oz N-frame is already a fairly large beast, from a concealment standpoint. My suggestion would be to try one of the common recoil-reducing grips on the market, such as Paychmayr and Hogue. If you've never used one of them, the wider/fatter grip surface can dramatically help spread the load of whatever recoil there is, beyond any softer/absorbing material the new grip's made of.

    Spreading the load can make a huge difference. In my case, I've had both a KelTec P3AT and a Kahr P380 mousegun. Both are puny in the extreme, but the P3AT was brutal on the bony area underneath the web between the thumb and index finger. While of similar size and weight, the P380 felt wonderful by comparison, from a hand-slap standpoint, without any of the pain on the bones at that spot. The P380's just wide enough to make all the difference, by comparison. Same with, say, comparing a Kahr P380 or PM9 to a CZ 75 or Browning Hi-Power. Beyond obvious differences in weight and size, for me what makes the most difference in overall comfort during firing is mostly the increased grip surface that spreads the load across more of the hand. Whatever you can do in this area might yield huge benefits for you, depending on your specific condition/pain.

    There are different loads you can use. There are lower-recoil variants of cartridges.

    Have you test-fired a number of different revolvers and pistols, to see whether different features of guns seem to reduce the problem?

    Part of the solution might come from a handgun that changes the orientation of the bore axis to your hand. For example, lower might be better. Only trying out different guns will determine if this is the case.

    If none of those things work, perhaps a concealed handgun just isn't in the stars. Knife, H2H techniques, ...
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    I know you specifically are asking about the FN 57, but unfortunately I can't comment on it as I've never even seen one in person, let alone fired one. I do however have a different suggestion. My IWI Desert Eagle 9mm feels like you're shooting a .22 far as felt recoil goes. Perhaps that's a viable option for you. My mother has terrible arthritis and after about 50 rounds through her .38spcl, she can hardly use her hands for a week, so I let her borrow my "Baby Eagle" and it was much more comfortable for her to shoot (far as practice goes, she'll be sticking with her .38 for self defense), perhaps you may have the same luck.

    IWI/Magnum Research Baby Desert Eagle II Semi Automatic Handgun 9mm 4.52" Barrel 15 Rounds Black Finish

    There's a listing for you, so you can get an idea of looks and dimensions, etc. if you're unfamiliar with it.

    Sorry I couldn't be of any help about your specific interest in the FN.
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    Ex Member Array pscipio03's Avatar
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    Don't get wrapped around the axle on the 5.7mm 'stopping power'. I'd rather have a .22LR than my fists.
    If the .45ACP hurts your hands as well as the 38, the FiveSeven is probably a good alternative, albeit an expensive one.
    As CCW points out there are different loads you can use in all of these firearms. If you aren't a handloader, but know someone who is, see if they'll work you up 5 or so 45ACP loads in light loads. I'll shoot a 185gr XTP sometimes out of my 1911 that has about the same recoil as my 9mm in a full load does. Easy to manager.
    Here's a longshot to consider as well-- teach yourself to shoot with you non-dominant hand. I know people who will practice shoot dominant eye + non-dominant hand to practice in case they have an injury to their dominant hand. Grab a .22LR pistol and a brick of ammo and head out to the range. You won't get it overnight, but once you do, you may be able to shoot that .45ACP with little issue out of your left hand (assuming you're right handed).

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    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    I've touted the ease of use of the Five-Seven on many posts. It is not only soft in recoil but it is also easy to load and easy to rack the slide... all operation that can be difficult for aged or arthritic hands. The round is certainly adequate, the pistol is of high quality, accuracy is excellent and the gun is lightweight, but it is a bit large for some CCW uses. If you usually carry a large pistol, then the Five-Seven should be no problem.
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  7. #7
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Hm. Pain's a tricky thing. Alternatives would depend on whether the pain can be gotten around.

    With the S&W 625, the 40oz N-frame is already a fairly large beast, from a concealment standpoint. My suggestion would be to try one of the common recoil-reducing grips on the market, such as Paychmayr and Hogue. If you've never used one of them, the wider/fatter grip surface can dramatically help spread the load of whatever recoil there is, beyond any softer/absorbing material the new grip's made of.

    Spreading the load can make a huge difference. In my case, I've had both a KelTec P3AT and a Kahr P380 mousegun. Both are puny in the extreme, but the P3AT was brutal on the bony area underneath the web between the thumb and index finger. While of similar size and weight, the P380 felt wonderful by comparison, from a hand-slap standpoint, without any of the pain on the bones at that spot. The P380's just wide enough to make all the difference, by comparison. Same with, say, comparing a Kahr P380 or PM9 to a CZ 75 or Browning Hi-Power. Beyond obvious differences in weight and size, for me what makes the most difference in overall comfort during firing is mostly the increased grip surface that spreads the load across more of the hand. Whatever you can do in this area might yield huge benefits for you, depending on your specific condition/pain.

    There are different loads you can use. There are lower-recoil variants of cartridges.

    Have you test-fired a number of different revolvers and pistols, to see whether different features of guns seem to reduce the problem?

    Part of the solution might come from a handgun that changes the orientation of the bore axis to your hand. For example, lower might be better. Only trying out different guns will determine if this is the case.

    If none of those things work, perhaps a concealed handgun just isn't in the stars. Knife, H2H techniques, ...
    Thanks for all your help. I should wait until current swelling goes down before using anymore of my handguns. I have snub 38sp in Colt, shoots 6 any may feel OK, A Colt Python, 357 which sounds ridiculous with arthritis but it has Pachy grips and is such a superbly balanced gun that it has little recoil, course that was before this problem arose but, you never know. Then a 92FS Beretta which shoots like a 22 almost and is very accurate, that may work.

    But first its hope the hand heals fast. Shooting much of anything right now will not help matters. I CCW still - the pain would be hardly noticeable if your life was on the line I think.

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    Getting old sucks....just not as bad as the alternative. I understand the pain though, I was force to give up .40 cal, because of a wrist injury, now I carry/shoot either 9mm or .45. You do what you have to do.
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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    I know you specifically are asking about the FN 57, but unfortunately I can't comment on it as I've never even seen one in person, let alone fired one. I do however have a different suggestion. My IWI Desert Eagle 9mm feels like you're shooting a .22 far as felt recoil goes. Perhaps that's a viable option for you. My mother has terrible arthritis and after about 50 rounds through her .38spcl, she can hardly use her hands for a week, so I let her borrow my "Baby Eagle" and it was much more comfortable for her to shoot (far as practice goes, she'll be sticking with her .38 for self defense), perhaps you may have the same luck.

    IWI/Magnum Research Baby Desert Eagle II Semi Automatic Handgun 9mm 4.52" Barrel 15 Rounds Black Finish

    There's a listing for you, so you can get an idea of looks and dimensions, etc. if you're unfamiliar with it.

    Sorry I couldn't be of any help about your specific interest in the FN.
    I see them sold at my range, I can get good idea of their feel in my hand. Thank you and you did help!

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    I've touted the ease of use of the Five-Seven on many posts. It is not only soft in recoil but it is also easy to load and easy to rack the slide... all operation that can be difficult for aged or arthritic hands. The round is certainly adequate, the pistol is of high quality, accuracy is excellent and the gun is lightweight, but it is a bit large for some CCW uses. If you usually carry a large pistol, then the Five-Seven should be no problem.
    Thanks for feedback. It may be academic. Just for a beginning look on a possible trade for my new Smith revolver, the range (and connected store) owner went thru 5 distributors of FN's guns - no one had an FN Five Seven. Maybe these people are like Colt. They make good guns but seem to be blase about actually selling them by making them available. Go figure....

    When my hand heals, I'll try my S&W with Hougue grips that I just bought, sure are a step down in looks from the woods, but maybe eventually I could change-off at times. If no joy, then I'll actually begin to plan a trade.

    How much do you pay for target ammo for your FN. I know FN is one of few makes of 5.7x28mm - that can be dicey as I found with a Glock 45 GAP I had once, very accurate and easy-recoil 45, but I don't reload and ammo got so pricey I had to trade that gun. FN has the same potential problem it seems with 5.7 rounds.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    How much do you pay for target ammo for your FN
    I buy in bulk and haven't bought any ammo for a while. I have about 800 rounds of SS197SR and SS195LF ammo left. I paid $18 and $15 per box. A good price these days will be around $20. Still competitive when compared to any other quality defensive round. For example; I use Win. PDX1 in my 9mm gun, which would be about $40 per box of 50, (if they were available in 50 round boxes). Ammo has always been easy to find here. I buy mostly at gun shows.

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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Have you thought of wearing a glove during practice? I too have wrist pain from shooting a too small gun with a powerful cartridge. But I can shoot a full size gun comfortably. probably the weight difference. the little Keltec 380, and the XD compact in 40cal both hurt my wrists, but in a larger gun I could shoot them just fine. DR

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    I have a five seveN! I like it. It is light, easy to shoot, low amout of recoil, high mag capacity. Comes with 3 mags. Seems more accurate for longer distances. It is large for carry but I have a Cleveland Ugly holster ( IWB). I don't carry it often.

    The down sides, ammo prices and availabilty, hard to reload the cases are laquered and won't hold up to very many reloads. There are several other companies that will introduce ammo for it soon. It has lots of plastic on it, that concerns me as to how long it will hold up. I guess it won't rust so much.

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I know what you mean about age afflicting the hands; that's starting to affect me significantly. First of all, N-frame revolvers have a very high bore axis, and being so large, unless the shooter has really large hands, one tends to have to use an off-center grip, whoch concentrates recoil into the base joint of the thumb. I stopped shooting N-frames way back in the late 1980s because of this.

    The high bore axis of SIG P-series pistols, plus the grip angle, plus the snappy .40 recoil, has made my P229R a torture device; I now dread my annual qual. I had hoped my chief would authorize 9mm as an alternative duty pistol cartridge, in the 9mm counterparts of our presently-authorized .40 duty pistols. I even bought a Glock G17 in anticipation, but the proposal was not signed, and I just had to qual again with the . 40 SIG. I may switch to a G22, as I remember the G22 duty pistols I used from 2002-2004 had less muzzle flip than my P229R. Though a G22 weighs less than a P229R, the lower bore axis, polymer frame, and the grip angle mitigate recoil.

    I am still able to shoot my all-steel 5" Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special without noticeable pain. I reckon the all-steel construction, relatively low bore axis, and gentler-accelerating .45 ACP, make enough difference. I have started toting the Baer concealed, while off the clock.

    As for the FN 5.7 pistol, it points too far off-target in my hands, (low, if I recall correctly) though this could be resolved with suffficient training, especially if all other pistols were set aside during the transition. If a low-recoil defensive pistol became a necessity, well, 5.7 would certainly beats .22 LR, in my opinion. If I coud adapt to the pointing characteristics, I would carry a 5.7 pistol.
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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    Have you thought of wearing a glove during practice? I too have wrist pain from shooting a too small gun with a powerful cartridge. But I can shoot a full size gun comfortably. probably the weight difference. the little Keltec 380, and the XD compact in 40cal both hurt my wrists, but in a larger gun I could shoot them just fine. DR
    Good idea, any suggestions on good gloves, I'd like those that leave fingers exposed.

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