Is There a Consensus? - Page 2

Is There a Consensus?

This is a discussion on Is There a Consensus? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rock and Glock steffen gets a Gold Star today! I'm usually pretty open minded, but when I saw the title of the ...

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Thread: Is There a Consensus?

  1. #16
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    steffen gets a Gold Star today!
    I'm usually pretty open minded, but when I saw the title of the thread on the home page I was 100% sold on my answer even without knowing the question.
    Rock and Glock and mkh like this.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I practice hitting what I shoot at because at my age and condition, I'm not running for cover or to/from/away from the BG. I'm going to have to stop the threat from right where I stand. You young guns can do all the shooting gymnatics you want. Meanwhile, I'm putting rounds downrange and praying the BG doesn't have the guts to stand there and take it.
    I'm with you 100%. The only shoot and move or shooting from cover I can do is at home in a dry-fire practice. My wife and I discuss various scenarios and walk through the paces. (if BG comes in that door, we go this way...if bg comes in through that window/door, we go that way...look for places where we can cover BG approaches through choke points...etc.)

    When we go out to eat, we discuss tactics if a shooter enters and which cover is available. Wife and I both carry and we have even discussed transferring guns to whomever has best shot/cover. It's just part of our what-if conversations, not a scare tactic. It also improves SA when in a public place.

    yeah, we're in our 70s...gives us something to talk about.
    kaikane0812 and oneshot like this.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    I guess following my rambling is the essential question:

    "In there too much information out there and how do we filter what is important?"
    I'd say: No, there is not too much information out there. One size does not fit all. I have no secret to finding what works. Everyone has to find their own way in life. Try what's recommended and see if it works for you. Discard the rest.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I don't think anyone has THE definitive answers to your "ramblings". I 'train' similar to you, but probably not as hard or as often.

    My training came in handy a few months ago, when I had two genuine bad guys at my front door. They were outside, debating kicking the door in. I was in living room, about 15 feet away, with .45 in hand. At that point, my 'training' activated and I became totally focused on stopping the threat, whatever it took. I was comfortable with the .45 and fully prepared to shoot to defend family. Luckily for me, they went off to victimize another house. That incident made me very glad that I spend a lot of time practicing......
    Please elaborate on your situation. Did you see them or hear them first? How quickly did it take to get to your gun? Where did you place yourself as you waited for them to break thru the door? Were you alone? Why do you think they left? What did you do after this...did you contact police, neighbors? What did you do right/wrong?
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  5. #20
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    Wow. 1,000 rounds of .45 is about 400+ bucks. If you fired 5 rounds per minute(reasonable since reload time and mag fill time are part of it) it would require over 3 hrs. to fire 1,000 rds. Not too much time if broken down into 2 or 3 days. Don't know about range fees, but $500 bucks total may be close, per week. $2,000.00 a month. I want a job like yours pays. If practice makes perfect then you must be getting close.
    I shoot with a pistol and a Canon. We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately. NRA life member.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I practice hitting what I shoot at because at my age and condition, I'm not running for cover or to/from/away from the BG. I'm going to have to stop the threat from right where I stand. You young guns can do all the shooting gymnatics you want. Meanwhile, I'm putting rounds downrange and praying the BG doesn't have the guts to stand there and take it.


    ^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^


    And, to the golf analogy................


    Just remember, if you can't get it to the short grass, you may as well stay home.
    That is why you go bust the couple bucket of balls at the driving range, to be certain you are getting the little white dimply thingy down the center, ( or around whatever dogleg you wish to go) of the big pretty green lawn.
    Translation;
    This is why some guys practice @ 30,40,50 yards and beyond.
    That way everything closer is in the bag.
    tacman605 likes this.
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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I practice hitting what I shoot at because at my age and condition, I'm not running for cover or to/from/away from the BG. I'm going to have to stop the threat from right where I stand. You young guns can do all the shooting gymnatics you want. Meanwhile, I'm putting rounds downrange and praying the BG doesn't have the guts to stand there and take it.
    I'm in this boat too! But I do have a practice regimen. I practice drawing and getting on target quickly, from where I am.
    Ive always hunted and have occasionally taken a target shooting friend out hunting. One of the things about hunting that target shooters don't get is when you have a good shot ... Take It Now! You may not get another! Most target guys will stare through the scope for a while. Animals don't hold still for longer than they have to. I kind of dought a BG will either.
    I may not win the Olympics, But I can get quickly on target and hold there long enough to make that shot! DR

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post

    QUESTION: Is there a consensus concerning "HOW" to train?
    Simply put, no........
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  9. #24
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    I practice the things you do and go through 50-100 rounds per week. I have my own place with a homemade 25 yard range. Most of my practice is on my feet, moving or from some other natural position ( such as having been knocked to the ground ). I would practice more if I could afford more ammo. As to consensus, I can't think of any subject on which there is a consensus. There are a lot of experts out there ( and some of them may actually be one ), many of whom I pay attention to. But in the end I make up my own mind about what to do and not do. There is no one I agree with totally and I'm sure I would have to look hard to find someone who agrees with me much more than partially. I suspect there are probably a lot of others just like me, but I doubt we could get a consensus on that either.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sioux565 View Post
    I stopped reading after you said you shot 1000 round per week.
    me too.
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    Glock 23, mic holster, clipdraw, abdominal carry.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
    Wow. 1,000 rounds of .45 is about 400+ bucks. If you fired 5 rounds per minute(reasonable since reload time and mag fill time are part of it) it would require over 3 hrs. to fire 1,000 rds. Not too much time if broken down into 2 or 3 days. Don't know about range fees, but $500 bucks total may be close, per week. $2,000.00 a month. I want a job like yours pays. If practice makes perfect then you must be getting close.
    My carry piece is 40 cal at about 30 cents/shot...paper punching garbage..so ya..The math is correct. I spend about 300 bucks per week. Since I have no car payment, I consider this a better investment.
    The place I shoot at costs me zero.
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  12. #27
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    There will never be a concensus on how much or what type training one should have just as there will never be a concensus on what is the best firearm or caliber.

    Each individual must decide what level they want to reach and what commitment they want to put out to stay there. Firearms training/trainers are a lot like pastors, if one says, does, preaches something you don't like or agree with simply move on. Eventually you will find one that suits your taste. Yes there is a ton of information out there. One saying this and the other saying "absolutely not".
    The trainers or information I tend to avoid are those that make claims that if you don't do it like me you will not survive or this simple one day course will have you shooting better than a Navy Seal and so on. There is no one perfect gun, bullet, shooting stance or whatever else for every person. We are individuals not only by our physical build but in our mental capacity so no one thing works for everyone.

    Being here I don't get to train as much as I would like to. I do have access to some top end operators here who are gracious enough to let me tag along at the range. Sometimes they outshoot me and sometimes I outshoot them but I do miss an organized training class where I can simply be a student. I do use golf as an example when teaching along with bowling and archery. Each of these sports requires the basics to be mastered and to perform them consistently to get consistent results.

    Oneshot said it best,
    Just remember, if you can't get it to the short grass, you may as well stay home.
    I practice at longer ranges simply because there are times when my engagement distances are longer. I do not carry a long gun while on camp most of the time, simply my Glock, so I have to be prepared to use it in place of a long gun if needed. Longer distances also allow me to challenge myself just to see what I can do.

    Always remember though if you limit yourself in your training you also limit yourself in what you will be able to do in a live SD situation. If you only train for 3 shots, three yards, in three seconds and so on, what happens when the distance is 11.2 yards and the bad guy has not read the appropriate memo stating how he should react and fires 7 rounds right off the bat? You will never dictate the circumstances in a true SD situation you will simply be reacting to what the other guy does.

    At this point you either have to disengage from the threat, if possible, engage at the longer distance hoping to be effective, or close the distance to within your effective range. Many folks would not rush into the path of incoming fire to close the distance. I simply look at it as expanding my safe zone. The farther out I can engage the less effective, hopefully, the bad guy will be at that distance.

    Finally there are limitations to training as others have stated. Physical, financial, family and so on but there are alternatives. A set of snap caps, a sterile (free of live ammo) room and a 6 year old with a whistle can test some skills. Balloons inflated and hung from a string provide movement and target identification when different colors are used. I am a firm believer in the phrase "trigger time is trigger time" and a .22 can save money on ammo and allow you to practice the fundamentals even if it is a different model than your EDC.

    It is still up to the individual and what they feel is best for them.
    oneshot likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #28
    mkh
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    There are some fundamentals that are consistent but my belief is that you have to do what comes/feels natural for you. If holding the gun gangster style or even upside down allows you to quickly put shots on target then that is what you should do. Unconventional? Yes. Will it work for others? Probably not. But if it works for you then that is what counts in a gun battle.

  14. #29
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    Rock what you got!

    Be polite.

    No one should know you are carrying.

    Situational Awareness is the general consensus.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sioux565 View Post
    I stopped reading after you said you shot 1000 round per week. I wish I was rich.
    As I have always said: Marry rich or choose your parents wisely.

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