Is There a Consensus?

Is There a Consensus?

This is a discussion on Is There a Consensus? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been avidly shooting for about 2 years now. Avidly for me means 600-1,000 rnds/week with my carry piece. Like many, I read the magazines, ...

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Thread: Is There a Consensus?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Is There a Consensus?

    I've been avidly shooting for about 2 years now. Avidly for me means 600-1,000 rnds/week with my carry piece.
    Like many, I read the magazines, watch videos as well as TV shows. I know little about gun smithing, bullet trajectories etc other than reading about them for interest only.

    Personally, I choose to train from a TAC and home defense mindset.

    QUESTION: Is there a consensus concerning "HOW" to train?

    In my "Non-Expert" opinion, here is what I believe and what annoys me:

    1) These "which is best" arguments seem fruitless. I would think the best would be defined as "which is best for me"? W/o some qualifiers, this question is impossible to answer.

    2) SHOOTING ADVICE: This one really amazes and annoys me. Other than the game of golf, of which I am a very good golfer, I don't think I've seen this much info overload!

    So much of it is obviously self serving from gun manufacturers.
    A great percentage also seems to stem from "Self proclaimed" experts.
    Another area of expert advice is from magazines, videos, TV shows and yes, even forums on the internet.


    I truly wonder if all this (advice) is detracting from a core of necessary gun defense practice techniques producing a detrimental effect if it ever becomes necessary to pull our weapon?

    I practiced, competed and taught martial arts for many years. I would laugh at many of the videos produced by "experts" knowing they were looking for the fast buck.
    Personally IMHO, I believe hand gun proficiency is quite similar to martial arts with PRACTICE-PRACTICE-PRACTICE being a prime mantra and (Perfect) practice coming in at a close second.

    I taught methods of self defense that were easy to learn (gross motor movements), effective and practiced with consistency knowing that most people will not remember (Other) highly advanced techniques nor would they have the time to practice them. (i.e) Gun take away techniques are great to learn, but require a great deal of time to learn and even more time to practice.

    Should not hand gun defense proceed from a similar philosophy?

    I have little interest in dialing in my carry piece for 100 feet at the range or bragging that I can do it. This sort of practice is not what I consider realistic from a defense standpoint.
    It reminds me of seeing the weekend golfer at the driving range hitting 80% of their bucket of balls with the driver when in fact the serious golfer does just the opposite knowing putting and short irons produce the best score.

    I am a firm believer in (SA) Situational Awareness, so I practice with this in mind.

    If my practice time is faulty with large gaps, I am open to suggestions.

    90% of my practice time is with the weapon I carry.
    I practice my draw with IWB & OWB holsters daily. (More OWB in winter)
    At the range I draw and fire at targets from 2 feet to 50 feet.
    I practice firing from behind cover.
    I practice walking forward, backward and sideways while firing at the target.
    I practice acquiring more than one target separated by several feet.
    I practice creating space between me and the assailant as I draw my weapon.

    That's what I do.

    I base my practice time on what logic dictates to me in a real world situation. The "What If" scenarios.

    My conclusion concerning a consensus is that that there are none. Maybe I'm wrong?
    One thing I do know for sure; there are more opinions than fact surrounding hand gun defense.


    Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
    Drgnfly likes this.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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  2. #2
    Member Array Drgnfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post

    I am a firm believer in (SA) Situational Awareness, so I practice with this in mind.

    If my practice time is faulty with large gaps, I am open to suggestions.

    90% of my practice time is with the weapon I carry.
    I practice my draw with IWB & OWB holsters daily. (More OWB in winter)
    At the range I draw and fire at targets from 2 feet to 50 feet.
    I practice firing from behind cover.
    I practice walking forward, backward and sideways while firing at the target.
    I practice acquiring more than one target separated by several feet.
    I practice creating space between me and the assailant as I draw my weapon.

    That's what I do.
    Not sure what direction you want this to go, off your ramblings.. :)

    But I do agree with what was said here, and I myself will be doing the same.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone has THE definitive answers to your "ramblings". I 'train' similar to you, but probably not as hard or as often.

    My training came in handy a few months ago, when I had two genuine bad guys at my front door. They were outside, debating kicking the door in. I was in living room, about 15 feet away, with .45 in hand. At that point, my 'training' activated and I became totally focused on stopping the threat, whatever it took. I was comfortable with the .45 and fully prepared to shoot to defend family. Luckily for me, they went off to victimize another house. That incident made me very glad that I spend a lot of time practicing......
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    I guess following my rambling is the essential question:

    "In there too much information out there and how do we filter what is important?"
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Member Array 3wggl's Avatar
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    I agree with your ramblings and like the golf analogy. As with golf, you will need some basic fundamentals, but from there, becoming too mechanical will only hurt you and be detrimental to your proficiency development. You have to build upon your own talents and way of doings things rather than try and mirror someone else's preferences. Practice basic fundamentals...and then go with what is most comfortable and best for you.

  6. #6
    Member Array Ceapea's Avatar
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    Unless one belongs to a good gun club, with good programs, most people can't do what you are doing. Moving while shooting, of any
    kind, is usually not allowed as well as drawing from the holster at most "ranges".
    I am lucky to belong to a good club with good defensive pistol and CPL practice programs which encourage moving while shooting, low light shooting, multiple attackers situations and so on.
    The man's nuts....grab 'em!
    A pistol free zone is a crime spree zone!
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    QUESTION: Is there a consensus concerning "HOW" to train?
    No, I wouldn't think so.

    Everyone has certain limitations within which they need to operate, whether it be physical, financial, availability of time, availability of shooting locales, and so on.

    I'm with you, though, that a more-serious approach can yield good benefits. So can taking advantage of the various skills and feedback that different quality instructors can provide. As can using some of the techniques that you've mentioned, among others: draw/reholstering practice; dry-fire. Then there's the legal/statutes side of things.

    Golf is probably a decent analogy, so far as it goes. Decent equipment, decent fundamentals, decent focus, requiring sufficient time commitment and focus to correct deficiencies, patience to address issues over time, partaking of skilled trainers where appropriate, limited by costs/time/locales.
    RKflorida and tacman605 like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Senior Member Array sioux565's Avatar
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    Re: Is There a Consensus?

    I stopped reading after you said you shot 1000 round per week. I wish I was rich.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
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  9. #9
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    On this forum there is only one answer to your question no matter what the topic.

    Is There a Consensus?

    No.



    -----------------
    Edit: I'm sure even this will be disputed.
    mkh, lchamp and Rock and Glock like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Took my pistol to the range because my nephew insisted. Fired 30-40 rounds through it. Hit the target close enough to close out the health record of whoever I shot. Came home, cleaned the pistol, put the good ammo back into it, and I'm good to go. Pistol at one end of the house, shotgun at the other. What's in between is nobody's business.
    Total cost of ammo, range fee, fuel to get there was about $100. For me, that is expensive. I got 250 rounds of pistol and 30 rounds of shotgun ammo on hand. It is enough.
    That is how I "trained".
    steffen likes this.

  11. #11
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    I practice hitting what I shoot at because at my age and condition, I'm not running for cover or to/from/away from the BG. I'm going to have to stop the threat from right where I stand. You young guns can do all the shooting gymnatics you want. Meanwhile, I'm putting rounds downrange and praying the BG doesn't have the guts to stand there and take it.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  12. #12
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    Consensus? Are you kidding?

    We can't even get consensus on whether or not to carry chambered!

    Seriously, yes, there is too much "bad" information out there. Just as there is too much "bad" information out there about virtually any subject you can mention. Every one has opinions and some of them are wrong.

    All you can do is sift through it, find the nuggets that make sense and seem to work for you, and dump the rest.
    bigmacque likes this.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    As for one particular way to train, no consensus. The important part is that you know and practice the basics.

    I can relate to your experience in martial arts. I never taught it, but I was taught in two different styles (well, one was more a system than a stye). I first studied Tien Shan Pai under the the master who brought it to the US, Willy Lin (don't get me started on all the controversy surrounding this system and the origins thereof and who is actually the "Grandmaster"). I later learned quite a bit from one of his disciples, Dennis Brown.

    Several years later I started studying Hung Fut under Grandmaster Tai Yim (he actually did much of the teaching himself back then. Now he has disciples and many instructors and assistants under him). Anyway, each style or system is a different way of accomplishing the same thing. They both started with the very basics and went from there, getting into more advanced techniques. As for defensive use, it doesn't matter which one I use, as long as I have learned the basics and train and practice. They both provide very efficient ways of defending myself. They simply present different ways of doing so (although of course there are similarities).

    Getting back to defensive shooting, There are different instructors who teach slightly different techniques, and give their "slant" on it. Some are very effective, some probably not so much. You will know the difference simply by reading or listening to what they have to say, and perhaps watching them or some of their students. Once you have decided on what techniques work for you, and you know the basics, the way you train and practice those techniques is up to you. It is now time for you to put your slant on it. To personalize it so that it represents the best way for you to handle any given situation. It may turn out to be a combination of different schools of thought.

    Sorry for rambling on about my martial arts background, but I am very proud to have been a student of both Sifus (teachers), as I'm sure you are of yours. It would be kind of like learning defensive shooting directly from Jeff Cooper back in the 70's and 80's.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    On this forum there is only one answer to your question no matter what the topic.

    Is There a Consensus?

    No.



    -----------------
    Edit: I'm sure even this will be disputed.
    steffen gets a Gold Star today!

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    600-1000 rounds a week? There are probably competition shooters who shoot less than that.
    sioux565 likes this.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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