Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

This is a discussion on Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We all know the importance of having a reliable sidearm, and the internet is littered with stories of exploding Glocks (most don't) and videos claiming ...

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Thread: Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    We all know the importance of having a reliable sidearm, and the internet is littered with stories of exploding Glocks (most don't) and videos claiming that 1911s 'suck' (which is similarly untrue).

    Along these lines and with these caveats in mind, I figured that I would share my recent experience in an advanced pistol class.

    At the end of the second of two intensive sessions, the students and instructor took multiple turns at the triple nickel drill (youtube it).

    Pistols shot:
    Walther PPQ (9 mm)
    Glock (4 not sure of the models, but all 9 mm, and one with a custom trigger job)
    Nighthawk Custom 1911 (.45 cal)
    Sig P 226 (9 mm)
    H&K (not sure of the model, but it was .40 cal)
    CZ 75 with trigger job (9 mm)

    During the drills, only the Walther and 3 of the Glocks did not suffer a failure of any sort.

    The customized Glock failed to go into battery dozens of times, despite being run by the most experienced of the group. A quick flick always returned the pistol to battery.

    The 1911 suffered numerous small failures (nothing that a tap n' rack did not solve).

    The H&K suffered a more serious jam (that was not solved by tapping and racking).

    The Sig shooter had problems on at least one occasion, but it is not evident whether this was due to the gun or due to operator error.

    The CZ shooter had numerous problems, but here too, I am not sure of the cause.

    This all left me very happy with my PPQ - which, BTW, is nearing 3,000 rounds without a failure to speak of. Frankly, I was surprised by the number of failures, and especially the failure of the Glock. I was less surprised at the failures of the 1911 after watching numerous 1911's suffer a mechanical of one sort or another during the handful of IDPA comps that I've competed in. From my experience, when 1911's are running (which is most of the time), they are the best shooters.

    In the end, I am most happy that I shot the triple nickel drill in 4.55 and 4.72. We weren't keeping diligent track of the hits, so, while I am confident that all hit the targets, I suspect that not all of the shots in the 'A' zone... The spotter on the 4.55 run said they were all hits, but I don't know exactly what he meant by that... At any rate, the slower run was not perfect, so no coins for me... yet...

    One more note, during that 4.55 run, I felt 'the flow', and that is a first for me in a shooting context. Everything slowed down, and the rythm of the double taps was like a metronome. It was like an out of body experience of sorts.... one that I want to feel again!
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  2. #2
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    I've done three EAG Tactical courses - 2 carbine, 1 handgun. All could be considered "intense" with lots of opportunities for guns to choke.

    In those 3 courses, more than half the sidearms were Glocks, a third were 1911s, and the rest were M+Ps, USPs and Sigs. The only handguns that failed were a pair of Glocks. One due to ammo (don't load a .40 round in your .45...) and the other due to a non-stock connector thingie (home gunsmithing gone awry). So - about 72 handguns, 8 training days, and over 30,000 rounds total, and ONLY two failures. I'd call that a pretty good showing for reliability, overall. Yes, if you do the math it only looks like 400+ rounds per gun, but these were not single shots with a rest in between. When the sidearms were used, they were used hard.

    Frankly, I was surprised at how well the 1911s behaved, since we have high-profile, bearded and bald 'name' instructors on YouTube telling us frequently how badly 1911s suck. But perhaps the same spirit that motivates an individual to invest a couple grand in a single training course motivates him to assure his gun is reliable before showing up.
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    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandyone View Post
    ...This all left me very happy with my PPQ - which, BTW, is nearing 3,000 rounds without a failure to speak of...
    That's good to know since I carry a PPQ.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Re: Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    My round count was 700 for the two days. I sure wish I could afford to blow ammo like that more often!

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    So the lesson to be learned is dont play trigger smith with your glocks and they run fine.

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandyone View Post
    ...exploding Glocks (most don't)...videos claiming that 1911s 'suck' (which is similarly untrue)...I figured that I would share my recent experience in an advanced pistol class...two intensive sessions, the students and instructor took multiple turns at the triple nickel drill...In the end, I am most happy that I shot the triple nickel drill in 4.55 and 4.72. We weren't keeping diligent track of the hits...The spotter on the 4.55 run said they were all hits, but I don't know exactly what he meant by that... At any rate, the slower run was not perfect, so no coins for me... yet...

    One more note, during that 4.55 run, I felt 'the flow', and that is a first for me in a shooting context. Everything slowed down, and the rythm of the double taps was like a metronome. It was like an out of body experience of sorts.... one that I want to feel again!
    So, from a tiny sample of handguns with undetermined failures you've determined...what? And, if you "weren't keeping a diligent track of hits" with your 4.55 & 4.72 runs with your Walther PPQ, what do you determine from that? And does "without a failure to speak of" mean no failures? I'm not being intentionally prickly, it just seems you mentioned a lot of stuff without telling us much more than you've now been in IDPA competition(s) & you've "felt the flow".
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I'm not worried about how reliable a gun is after 200 or so rounds without cleaning. It's the magazine in it, and the spare I have on me that it must reliably go thru at the time I need it.

    In my own testing posted here, I ran a Glock and my Colt both with 1000 rounds and had no issues over the weekend of shooting.

    Now, it seems to me, based on my shooting experiences, that modern guns, at least the full sized guns, run pretty reliably. My opinion on the matter is too much emphasis is placed on round count to determine reliability.

    Now, at first glance, this seems to make sense. But, if we are of the mind that an autoloader must fire x number of rounds to be reliable, then maybe a revolver is the best choice.
    Sure, a revolver could bind, or break, but, after all the mechanisms work correctly in an autoloader after the hammer drops and round is extracted, it still must pick up, and insert the next round in the chamber without fail before the trigger mechanisms can even be worked again.

    These are just my thoughts. But, high round count in training exercises IMO, are not a deciding indicator for me in determining whether or not a particular gun is suited for real world type scenarios in the practical sense.
    So for me, if a clean gun constantly gets thru 50 rounds of ammo without fail, I'll trust it for my purposes.
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    I guess I live in a fantasy world where you open the box, clean off the factory grease and grime, load it and shoot it and it should work without having to break it in or be nice to it on Tuesday's. After that you maintain it and it maintains you.

    Anything mechanical can malfunction and when you add cheap ammo, aftermarket parts, speed and stress along with a number of other factors things happen.

    Glad you enjoyed the course.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Re: Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    So, from a tiny sample of handguns with undetermined failures you've determined...what? And, if you "weren't keeping a diligent track of hits" with your 4.55 & 4.72 runs with your Walther PPQ, what do you determine from that? And does "without a failure to speak of" mean no failures? I'm not being intentionally prickly, it just seems you mentioned a lot of stuff without telling us much more than you've now been in IDPA competition(s) & you've "felt the flow".
    Prickly, indeed. I was just sharing the experience, that's all.

    Like I said, I was surprised by the failures, and excited to share a positive shooting experience.

    Isn't that what this forum is for?

    If I wanted do statistically defensible research, I would publish it in a peer reviewed journal.

    This is just a story, and you can draw whatever conclusions you want, or none if that pleases you.

    Edit: 'none to speak of' means zero malfunctions from *my* PPQ.

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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    For a realistic notion of actual round count, I must first ask just how many rounds do you intend on carrying on a daily bases? They, whoever they are, say that the average gun fight is just a few shots less than five. I am thinking carrying 500 rounds every day is going to prove a bit much.
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    Personal experience goes a long way in developing our feelings of a firearm's reliability, or at least it should. I take everything I read and hear regarding reliability of this gun or that gun with A huge grain of salt. I have taken three multi-day defensive pistol courses using my full size Kimber 1911. I didn't have any failures at all. It ran clean every time. So for me, it is a reliable pistol, and I would bet my life on it. The next course I take I will probably use one of my Glocks to see how it does.

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    Senior Member Array Dandyone's Avatar
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    Re: Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    Personal experience goes a long way in developing our feelings of a firearm's reliability, or at least it should. I take everything I read and hear regarding reliability of this gun or that gun with A huge grain of salt. I have taken three multi-day defensive pistol courses using my full size Kimber 1911. I didn't have any failures at all. It ran clean every time. So for me, it is a reliable pistol, and I would bet my life on it. The next course I take I will probably use one of my Glocks to see how it does.
    I would happily carry any one of the said pistols. I would love to own a Nighthawk, and a Kimber is on my wish list. I wouldn't try to dissuade someone from a Glock for that matter.



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    I thought the OP just gave an honest and factual accounting of an event and let the chips fall where they may. I don't think he was attempting to get under the skin of any forum members or be in any way confrontational.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    So, from a tiny sample of handguns with undetermined failures you've determined...what? And, if you "weren't keeping a diligent track of hits" with your 4.55 & 4.72 runs with your Walther PPQ, what do you determine from that? And does "without a failure to speak of" mean no failures? I'm not being intentionally prickly, it just seems you mentioned a lot of stuff without telling us much more than you've now been in IDPA competition(s) & you've "felt the flow".
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    Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    Great report and a fun day OP!

    My opinion on the Glock vs. 1911 issues is this: if Glock is considered the cream of the crop polymer for reliability and course/combat use, why not choose the cream of the crop 1911(s) to put it up against? Stereotyping the 1911 platform when many manufacturers exist is ridiculous IMO.

    And no I don't consider Nighthawk the best.
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    Glocks vs. 1911s... and the winner is...

    Good story. Sounds like a great day!! I like that everyone has differet experiences with firearms. If everybody shot the same pistol this forum would be a bit boring. I love glocks. Some people love 1911s. To each his own
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