Time to stir the pot a little!

This is a discussion on Time to stir the pot a little! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had a rather interesting experience at work today. My boss approached me and asked what I thought about the Ruger LCP vs. LC9. After ...

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Thread: Time to stir the pot a little!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
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    Time to stir the pot a little!

    I had a rather interesting experience at work today. My boss approached me and asked what I thought about the Ruger LCP vs. LC9. After a short discussion I understood that he was really asking my recommendation on .380 vs. 9x19.

    Here's what I told him: "The .380 is better than nothing, but it's an inadequate round to rely on for stopping a lethal force attack. The reason is that, even with modern JHP's, the round expands inconsistently and does not meet FBI penetration standards. On the other hand, the 9x19 is proven in the field and can penetrate to vital organs if shot placement is good."

    He then asked "...but isn't recoil a factor?"

    To which I responded "Not really. You won't be running thousands of rounds through an LC9. I would recommend running perhaps 200-300 rounds through it to break it in - just follow Ruger's recommendations. And then practice with it enough to ensure you're familiar with its manual-of-arms and can make good, consistent hits inside about 7 yards. You should be good to go, then, assuming you do recurrent training to maintain your skill level."

    What do y'all think? Was this good advice, bad advice or something in between?
    kmagnuss and darbo like this.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    StarPD45
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    Good. And he didn't ask if you were carrying?

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
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    Nope. Against company policy!
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me. Have you shot both? I only ask in that you could give him specifics for his benefit from your experience. I grew to hate the trigger on the LC9. Did not mind the external safety, and feel it set me up well for running a 1911.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
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    I actually haven't fired either, though I have plenty of experience with both rounds on other platforms. I did point out the size difference - the smaller LCP is more conducive to EDC. But you bring up a good point...experience with both would have added more credibility...which is always good when conversing with one's boss! :-)
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    See no really issue with the post I do have more faith in the 380 than that I have used one and own a couple don't use HP in a 380 shoot 90-95 gr flat nose rounds they will do the job at 21 feet.
    Lc9 is easier to shoot

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Ha! Good point. You can keep on him with the sound advice and tell him to hold and shoot both before he decides. He will thank you!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
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    Yeah...maybe I'll even get a raise! Ha!

    Smitty...you ever seen penetration tests with the 95 gr FN's? Just curious...
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    I think your advice was concise, given that you hadn't shot either firearm specifically.
    I would have said basically the same,
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Mostly good, but what is his experience level? Recoil can definitely be a factor. "good, consistent" is kinda vague, how about something more concrete like 3" groups at 7 yds? I think how he plans on carrying could have a lot to do with a recommendation.

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    Senior Member Array daffyduc's Avatar
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    If he is a new shooter I bet he is better with the 380 first time out. I found new shooters I have brought to the range have better consistency with the lighter recoil. All issues can be corrected with practice but the 3 people I have helped were all much more comfortable with the Walter right out of the gate.

    Just thinking out loud.

    Also plenty of people have been killed by .22 's I carry a 9mm but the .380 is not a bad round.
    There is nothing that will replace some solid range time with both.

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    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
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    He is fairly new at this and might be better with the .380 first time out, but this is not about shooting tight groups...it's all about stopping the threat and surviving. I also pointed him to DocGKR's tests discussed over on M4Carbine.net for reference.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduc View Post
    If he is a new shooter I bet he is better with the 380 first time out. I found new shooters I have brought to the range have better consistency with the lighter recoil. All issues can be corrected with practice but the 3 people I have helped were all much more comfortable with the Walter right out of the gate.

    Just thinking out loud.

    Also plenty of people have been killed by .22 's I carry a 9mm but the .380 is not a bad round.
    There is nothing that will replace some solid range time with both.
    I think that the blowback and the smaller guns have more recoil than the fullsize Glocks and Sigs or seem to in my experience.

    Either way, just tell him to man up and get a .50 AE or a S&W 500. Or just be a good friend and preach the joys of the 9mm Glock.

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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Tell him to get whichever feels best and that he thinks he can carry on a regular basis. Once he get's one gun, he won't be able to stop, and then he'll get a bigger caliber, and then he'll start carrying extra magazines, and then he'll....oh wait, that was me.

    But seriously, either one works, the .380 and 9x18 have been working in Europe for a long time, just like the 9mm has been a very popular round in he U.S.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

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    Senior Member Array sioux565's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    I actually haven't fired either, though I have plenty of experience with both rounds on other platforms. I did point out the size difference - the smaller LCP is more conducive to EDC. But you bring up a good point...experience with both would have added more credibility...which is always good when conversing with one's boss! :-)
    I for one have had the chance to put about 400 rounds though my LCP and about 100 rounds though a LC9 that was a range rental and your advise seems about spot on!
    Hopyard likes this.

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