How many FTF, FTE, Stove Pipes, till you lose confidence in a ccw
This is a discussion on How many FTF, FTE, Stove Pipes, till you lose confidence in a ccw within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I didn't want to go through the worry of "bad from the box" and having to break in a new gun, so I bought a ...
January 4th, 2013 11:42 PM
I didn't want to go through the worry of "bad from the box" and having to break in a new gun, so I bought a Glock. Problem solved. The only FTF it ever had was on the second mag when my thumb got in the way of the slide. Painful lesson learned quickly there!
Never shot a Keltec. It seems hit or miss on how well they work. I guess that can happen with any make.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
January 5th, 2013 01:24 PM
Welcome to the forum.
Since it happened right out of the box, I would have called Kel-tec and shipped it back for repairs. They could have sent you a prepaid shipping label and it would have cost you nothing. Or had the store ship it back at their cost, since it was defective when purchased. Sounds like the store didn't want to be bothered to me. Since you have made modifications I doubt Kel-tec will eat the cost now, but call them directly and see.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
January 5th, 2013 04:17 PM
How many FTF, FTE, Stove Pipes, till you lose confidence in a ccw
First thing you try is to let somebody else shoot it & see if they have similar problems. Sometimes stovepipes & failure to feed can be shooter induced. If the handgun is shot with a loose or 'limp' wrist, it will happen a lot. Try tightening your grip & see if that helps.
Magazines would be the next thing to check. A bad mag has caused even high dollar handguns to appear as lemons.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
January 5th, 2013 04:34 PM
Sorry to hear about your luck. I would have a really tough time trusting any gun that had near that much trouble.
I had my run of bad luck with 2 taurus pistols. I learned the hard way to stay away from all those cheaper firearms that have mixed (bad) reviews - taurus, kel-tec, rossi ect.
I get tempted buy a cheap taurus or something every now and again then I just remember the lesson I learned.
The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.
January 5th, 2013 04:42 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe most warranties are voided after you start trying to fix things yourself.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
-General James Mattis, USMC
January 5th, 2013 04:45 PM
If I had a failure that was explainable, and could be prevented in the future - sure, I'd trust the gun again. If it was a design flaw or shouldn't have happened, then no. I haven't had much experience with handgun failures. My 1911 has had a few failures to feed - nothing a tap on the back of the slide wouldn't fix - and that was depending on the type of ammo I used.
The only other weapons failures I've ever had were failure to feed (at all) or double feed - both with M16 service rifles with old worn out magazines with bad springs and bent feed lips, black followers. Simple fix in that case.
January 5th, 2013 05:13 PM
I have a 60's Walther ppks that stove pipes after a few mags consistently. I have never had it fail before the third mag or so. I would carry it but its not my first choice.
January 5th, 2013 05:44 PM
Sorry to read of your problems OP. I hope Keltec gets your pistol fixed.
FWIW, my rule of thumb for a reliable handgun is that it must shoot 1,000 rds. of assorted fmj and jhp ammo with zero failures.
At that point I consider it GTG.
My HK and Beretta 92 pistols have all easily met these requirements.
( I own no Glocks but suspect they would too. )
Good luck to you !
"Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less".
General Robert E. Lee
January 5th, 2013 06:01 PM
I have a P3AT - never had a problem with light strikes. I did have a problem with failure to feed, and I took some fine polishing media and polished up the feed ramp, what a difference, I have never had a gun caused issue. Because of its size, I had an issue with a grip and slide (I have fat hands).
One thing about those little pocket guns, they have a "bite" to them. I would rather shoot full size .45 all day versus 50 rounds of .380 in a pocket size pea shooter.
In all my semi-auto's (auto-loaders as I prefer to call them) 99% of the time the FTE's are my fault, grip issues, limp wristing or other issue if my arm is getting tired.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
January 5th, 2013 06:24 PM
If I have a gun that light strikes *at any time* I would not rely on it as my carry. I will explain why below.
I would not feel comfortable using a gun as a carry unless I can consistently go several hundred rounds between *each* failure to feed/eject.
The probability of a failure to feed/eject P(F) and the probability of being in an armed counter (A) are both mutually independent events. Much like a coin toss: P(H) for heads (0.5), P(T) tails (0.5). The probability of both events occurring in sequence for mutually independent events is the product of the probabilities.
To illustrate: chances of two heads: P(H)P(H) = 0.25, or 1 in 4.
Assume a gun fails to feed/eject once every 200 rounds. Assume your chance of needing to use your gun is 16/1000 (rough blended statistic for male/female being a victim of violent crime).
The probability of not having A SECOND shot is (1/200)* (16/1000) or 16 in 200,000, or roughly 1/12,500.
Note I stated "SECOND" shot. If I am carrying an auto loader, I want a 100% chance for a first shot, and only a very small chance that I cannot have a follow up shot or shots. That's why I don't want any light strikes whatsoever.
Now, if you carry a revolver, you don't need to concern yourself with these type of stats. On the other hand, you are limited to 5 or 6 shots. (But so be it, I often carry a revolver and feel just fine).
January 7th, 2013 12:10 AM
I messed with a Kel Tec for more then a year. Returning mags, then weapon to factory, no change. Had the chamber and the ramp polished, springs,,, Nothing. Gave up and traded it towards an XDS. I haven't looked back!
January 7th, 2013 01:16 PM
Re: How many FTF, FTE, Stove Pipes, till you lose confidence in a ccw
To answer question in title, there's always a cause. That doesn't mean there's always a reasonable solution, depending on cost and amount of work to fix, but most things I've run into could be resolved with new mag/spring, new extractor/spring, or firingpin/spring. Anything further I call it a junker and find someone willing to deal with the headache and work out a trade or sale.
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