what happens after your seventh defense shot? - Page 8

what happens after your seventh defense shot?

This is a discussion on what happens after your seventh defense shot? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is why I, for myself, try to stress accuracy over capacity. If seven rounds are fired, and you haven't hit the bad guy in ...

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  1. #106
    Member Array HunterKelli's Avatar
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    This is why I, for myself, try to stress accuracy over capacity. If seven rounds are fired, and you haven't hit the bad guy in a vital zone, then I would suggest more time at the range trying to sink nails with your weapon. I don't EVER want to end up in a situation like that. Ever.


  2. #107
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I know the analogy is to make a point but, this situation as far as I've ever heard, just doesn't happen.
    I would think if there is an armed group of people putting good effort into killing you, you aren't innocent to begin with...
    I'm guessing you weren't in Los Angeles in 1965, or Detroit in '67. Or Chicago, Baltimore, or D.C. in '68. Or L.A. in 1992.
    Pretty safe bet you weren't in South Louisiana after Katrina & Rita in 2005, either - I was.
    How about in coastal New York, post-Sandy?

    As for, "...if there is an armed group of people putting good effort into killing you, you aren't innocent to begin with...", this statement does a horrible disservice to literally millions of (INNOCENT) victims of the Russian & Chinese Communist parties, the Khmer Rouge, the Brown Shirts, the KGB, the Gestapo, etc., etc., etc. How about the 500,000 Rwandans or the 400,000 victims of genocide in Darfur? 150,000 in Ethiopia, 100,000 in Laos, or the 80,000 in Equatorial Guinea? I guess none of them were innocent to start with?

    Did you happen to talk to, or see any of the interviews of, the Hurricane Sandy refugees? How their biggest fear wasn't the lack of food, or water, or shelter, or medicine, but the fear of being robbed, beaten, raped, and/or murdered by gangs of looters? The innocent, law-abiding victims were not armed - the looters were.

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I know these "bans" are senseless but, I guess I just don't fear them the way most people do. You'll still be able to buy what you need once the panic stops.
    Tell that the to the unarmed victims of robbers, rapists and killers in Australia, the UK, New York (see above re: Sandy), Chicago, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I guess my heads in the sand?
    Silly to call someone out and criticize directly for engaging in thought provoking discussion.
    I did respond after that post clarifying my thoughts.
    I think they're as valid as yours.
    "Thought provoking?" Definitely!
    "Silly to call someone out and criticize directly...?" I'm not aware that I "called anyone out" or directly criticized anyone in my original reply, but I'll let each reader judge that (and whether it's "silly") for him/herself. It's nothing personal, my friend, but history has a way or repeating itself, and those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it (Burke).

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I don't agree with any of the proposed changes to gun law, for the record.
    Well, we agree on this one!
    Regards,
    Jim
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    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  3. #108
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    RELATED - New York
    This should make things extra interesting for good ol' NY.

    The city’s population of mentally deranged street people may explode because of new regulations signed by Gov. Cuomo last week that forbid privately run adult homes from accepting new residents, advocates warned.
    “Hospitals can’t discharge to us,” said Jeffrey Edelman, who runs adult homes in Queens and The Bronx. “Within a week, the hospitals will be starting to get backed up, and they are going to have big problems.”
    The change is part of the state’s efforts to comply with a federal court ruling that found institutionalizing the mentally ill in adult homes wrongly segregates them.
    An estimated 4,000 to 6,000 mentally ill people, the majority in New York City, could be affected.

    “My residents need reminders several times a day to take their medications and see their doctors,” Edelman said. “My residents used to be in homeless shelters and went from hospital to hospital.”

    An estimated 4,000 to 6,000 mentally ill people, the majority in New York City, could be affected.

    Make that possibly 6,001 - They forgot to add Gov. Cuomo to the list.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #109
    Member Array Stufftoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    I'm guessing you weren't in Los Angeles in 1965, or Detroit in '67. Or Chicago, Baltimore, or D.C. in '68. Or L.A. in 1992.
    Pretty safe bet you weren't in South Louisiana after Katrina & Rita in 2005, either - I was.
    How about in coastal New York, post-Sandy?

    As for, "...if there is an armed group of people putting good effort into killing you, you aren't innocent to begin with...", this statement does a horrible disservice to literally millions of (INNOCENT) victims of the Russian & Chinese Communist parties, the Khmer Rouge, the Brown Shirts, the KGB, the Gestapo, etc., etc., etc. How about the 500,000 Rwandans or the 400,000 victims of genocide in Darfur? 150,000 in Ethiopia, 100,000 in Laos, or the 80,000 in Equatorial Guinea? I guess none of them were innocent to start with?

    Did you happen to talk to, or see any of the interviews of, the Hurricane Sandy refugees? How their biggest fear wasn't the lack of food, or water, or shelter, or medicine, but the fear of being robbed, beaten, raped, and/or murdered by gangs of looters? The innocent, law-abiding victims were not armed - the looters were.


    Tell that the to the unarmed victims of robbers, rapists and killers in Australia, the UK, New York (see above re: Sandy), Chicago, etc.

    "Thought provoking?" Definitely!
    "Silly to call someone out and criticize directly...?" I'm not aware that I "called anyone out" or directly criticized anyone in my original reply, but I'll let each reader judge that (and whether it's "silly") for him/herself. It's nothing personal, my friend, but history has a way or repeating itself, and those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it (Burke).

    Well, we agree on this one!
    You linked to a thread telling me my head was in the sand as a direct response to what I wrote.
    That's OK. I understand the sentiment. I disagree but, that's OK too.

    I pose a question about the "modern" examples you wrote of (because technology would have been similar), lets say LA riots, New Orleans (Katrina), NY/NJ(Sandy). How many examples of "gangs" pursuing peoples homes or otherwise after being fired upon 7 times. I would have to guess very few if any.

    I thought the question was in relation to the current New York ban. Not whether or not I'd like to fight communist and Nazis with a six shooter.

    If you misunderstand my opinion here, I understand. It happens a lot on the internet.

    As an aside, why did you quote Burke? The roots are based in Greek philosophy as I remember.
    Hopyard likes this.

  5. #110
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    Well, I guess that they'll get reacquainted with the "New York Reload", won't they?
    "If it bleeds...we can kill it." -Dutch, Predator

  6. #111
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    Re: what happens after your seventh defense shot?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaShooter View Post
    Simply look at the criminal and tell them you are a community activist and love them, understand their struggle and they should accept Christ and not commit this crime.... Reason with them and point to your Obama bumper sticker. Works every time.
    I just lol'ed at this. Well said!

    Sent from my phone using Dumb Thumbs

  7. #112
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    You linked to a thread telling me my head was in the sand as a direct response to what I wrote.
    No I didn't - I linked to some pictures of ostriches. Maybe you're reading too much into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    That's OK. I understand the sentiment. I disagree but, that's OK too.
    You're a good sport. No offense intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I pose a question about the "modern" examples you wrote of (because technology would have been similar), lets say LA riots, New Orleans (Katrina), NY/NJ(Sandy). How many examples of "gangs" pursuing peoples homes or otherwise after being fired upon 7 times. I would have to guess very few if any.
    I consider ALL of the examples I gave as "modern". They all occurred within my parents' lifetimes; within the last 1% of recorded history. With the exception of the WWII references and the Stalinist purges, they were all within MY lifetime. The differences in weapons technology were irrelevant to the outcomes.

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    I thought the question was in relation to the current New York ban. Not whether or not I'd like to fight communist and Nazis with a six shooter.
    I wasn't discussing whether you would like to fight communists and Nazis with a six shooter, either. I cited those as examples where 1) certain people who WERE "innocent to begin with" had "armed groups of people putting good effort into killing" them and 2) Having a State-mandated limit of seven rounds might not be enough. If you want to limit the discussion to the New York ban, then you might revisit your comment that, "You'll still be able to buy what you need once the panic stops."

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    If you misunderstand my opinion here, I understand. It happens a lot on the internet.
    Indeed it does!

    Quote Originally Posted by walls View Post
    As an aside, why did you quote Burke? The roots are based in Greek philosophy as I remember.
    Actually, I quoted George Santayana, and incorrectly attributed it to Burke. Santayana was paraphrasing (or perhaps plagiarizing?) Burke. Although the meaning is the same, Burke's actual wording was slightly different: "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  8. #113
    Member Array Stufftoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    ...I consider ALL of the examples I gave as "modern". They all occurred within my parents' lifetimes; within the last 1% of recorded history. With the exception of the WWII references and the Stalinist purges, they were all within MY lifetime. The differences in weapons technology were irrelevant to the outcomes....

    ...If you want to limit the discussion to the New York ban, then you might revisit your comment that, "You'll still be able to buy what you need once the panic stops...
    I didn't mean to question the weapon technology per se, but to state what we have access to as consumers more easily these days (internet, gun shows, amount manufactured) as apposed to pre 1980's to help compare apples to apples situations.
    My only point was, by looking at the odds, I feel as though any gun fired at low level criminals and opportunists let alone 7 shots, will stop the situation 99% of the time. For me, I can't worry about the 1%. It's just too random. Realistically, anything can happen at any time. I respect that some people take great care to prep for anything and everything. I just can't. Might get hit by a car, struck by lightning, I can't drive myself crazy with that type of worry.
    I also draw a distinction between home/personal defense situations and battling corrupt government/cartel/organized crime for practical purposes. Philosophically and constitutionally is a different story.

    I guess you're right though. My comment about once the panic stops doesn't really apply unless you want to own these things "illegally" in NY.
    Anybody know the consequences for owning the banned mags? Is the old stuff grandfathered in? Just for conversation's sake.

    I'm not that versed in US law to know if it's constitutional or not but, passed the senate and signed by the governor. I guess that's that huh?

  9. #114
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    Sorry all, I didn't read 99 % of this thread. What happens after the 7th shot? Realistically, one or both of you
    are lying on the ground with grievous wounds. If it got to 7 it means the BG wasn't stopped and didn't decide
    to take off.

    So both of you are on your feet, time to get serious. Beat the crap out of the BG.
    Last edited by Hopyard; January 27th, 2013 at 10:25 PM. Reason: fixed punctuation
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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