CCO availability and quality - who makes 'em? - Page 2

CCO availability and quality - who makes 'em?

This is a discussion on CCO availability and quality - who makes 'em? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Deadguy: thanks for the correction! -424D57...

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Thread: CCO availability and quality - who makes 'em?

  1. #16
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    Deadguy: thanks for the correction!

    -424D57
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  2. #17
    Member Array Coltman 77's Avatar
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    I recently spoke with the folks at Wilson Combat (always wanted one) and they are 14 to 16 months out on delivery time given the current firearm frenzy.

    I've got plenty of Colts, and HK 45 pistols, so I'll just wait. Don't have any choice unfortunately.
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  3. #18
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    Just my personal opinion and so not meaning to start a Kimber argument but in my opinion Kimber handguns are way overpriced considering what you are getting for your money in the parts and internals. Were I you I would knock them off of my consideration list.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Just my personal opinion and so not meaning to start a Kimber argument but in my opinion Kimber handguns are way overpriced considering what you are getting for your money in the parts and internals. Were I you I would knock them off of my consideration list.
    ^^^^^^+1^^^^^^

    Check out the Sigs they have some CCO size models out there...Plus, it's a SIG!
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    ďA free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.Ē --George Washington

  5. #20
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    Sig has not exactly thrilled me with the quality of its products in recent years. But, if they make a good CCO then they make a good CCO, which would make the RCS worth considering.

    Dually-noted QK, thanks. I suppose the problems of the Cohen-day Kimbers persist?
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Smarshe's Avatar
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    I love my Kimber solo stainless. I'll buy a Ultra Carry plus 3" as soon as I can find one. I could find one any day of the week a month ago.

  7. #22
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    At the risk of being a "kill-joy" at this party, I will offer this.

    The Cohen legacy of Kimber... reliability? Well, ah, sometimes. :-) But don't count on it. Far better being a SHAREholder in Kimber, than a Kimber GUNholder.

    Kimber... the last half-decade's claim to fame is all about BLING and HYPE! Yeah baby! BLING and HYPE! Absolutely. Just like our good buddy B. Hussein Obama... and you can take that to the bank! ;-) BLING and HYPE!

    SIG under Cohen; hard on Kimber's heels? Perhaps so. Unfortunate.

    In any event, there will always be some reliable samples, regardless of the number of dogs. Question is... are ya feelin' lucky today, bucky?

    These days there are so many handgun models which are being produced to appeal specifically to the recreationalist, casual, mall-warrior-mentality. Uber-short-barreled, low capacity .45's are designed SPECIFICALLY for this crowd. The casual tourist with virtually little need for critical defense will likely be well-served with a mini- or micro-1911. Serious-minded defenders may wish for something a good-bit more capable, however.

    ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION... do you, or does anyone else, think that true, professional security personel would EVER choose a compact, or SUB-compact 1911 as a security weapon??? I mean, really? Why would they?

    I like STI; I believe they prioritize quality and reliability. My Edge is exceptionally well-made. Same with Colt. Given an emphasis on reliability and quality, brand is arguably less important than design. Go with quality AND design. Don't cut your needs short in your quest for a very small, light-weight design. Time-tested, tried, and true design is worthy of your trust and hard-earned dollars. Johnny-come-lately, flavor-of-the-month designs and models... meh. If you choose this route, I hope the micro-size, low-capacity options work out just wonderfully for you.

    I'm sure I go against some of the mass-mindset grain here, but really, the desire to choose from small, big-bore, low-capacity defense handgun options and still expect premium defensive capability from such just flies in the face of sensibility... in my mind anyway.

    .45acp caliber and small, minimal designs don't tend to work out quite optimally. If you MUST have a small, short-barrel design defense pistol, I would suggest you consider going with a tupperware solution, chambered in 9mm or .40 caliber. Such small-sized solutions, chambered in 9mm or .40 caliber, are more reliable, offer higher capacity, and generally offer better terminal ballistics than small, short-barrel .45acp offerings... they make a lot more sense than small 1911's chambered in 45 acp do.

    In the end, it's your gun, your life. No one else's opinion regarding YOUR gun impacts themselves... your choice impacts only you.

    If this makes no sense to you, in your quest... never mind, no need for comment. Alas, in that event, it was only meant for someone else, anyway. :-)
    Last edited by DHart; January 22nd, 2013 at 03:54 AM.
    The clowns in government office see the solution to everything is write more laws, creating the ever-mounting morass of legal handicaps that we citizens must labor under.

    STATE'S RIGHTS RULE and should be INVIOLATE. Feds butt out!

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
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    I didn't originally intend to respond to this, but since the questions have come up twice I'll go ahead and do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself having the darkest day of your life, facing the darkest evil you have ever confronted, will you be glad you chose from among the smallest, lowest capacity pistols you could choose? Really?
    No. If it came to it, I'd be glad to be wearing my duty belt and drawing my duty firearm. What I am looking for is an off-duty gun that can accompany me on my other job, one where I wear a nice button down shirt and dress slacks and where the firearm needs to remain hidden. As someone on the slim side of athletic, I don't have the build to hide blocky handguns as well as I'd want to in that attire and setting. Tucked in shirts make printing more likely as well, further complicating the task of hiding the gun. I absolutely understand the compromises being made to carry a gun, but I'd rather accept that compromise than carry nothing at all.

    The form factor of a CCO 1911 is dominated by 7-10 round pistols. Subcompact Glocks, Compact S&W M&Ps, Kahr K9 & 40, and S&W Shield are all roughly the same size. The tiny Glocks and M&Ps carry the most ammunition, while everything else is 7+1... same as a CCO pattern 1911. In fact, the Sig RCS is only .2" taller and 1.5" longer than the S&W Shield. With slim grips, it will only be marginally thicker. The primary difference will be in weight, which is acceptable to me. The biggest CCO on my list is the Dan Wesson, just shy of 2" longer and .5" taller than the Shield. Incidentally, the Glock 19 is actually slightly smaller on the spec sheet than the Dan Wesson CCO, but as I said, I have trouble concealing blockier guns. While the Kahr and M&P Shield will conceal better, I have much, much more experience with the 1911.

    Hopefully I've cleared up my reasoning for looking at the smaller 1911. Of course, I might just throw a curve and grab a Caracal C, if the SC isn't released by the time I make the purchase.
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  9. #24
    Member Array DHart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    I didn't originally intend to respond to this, but since the questions have come up twice I'll go ahead and do so.
    Brian... Thank you for ultimately finding the courtesy to make a reply.

    That you wouldn't bother to reply to a post which someone put considerable time and effort into making, in response to your quest, is revealing.

    Your ultimate reply was thoughtful and added considerable pertinent information relevant to your selection criteria.

    The difference in concealing a CCO and a bobtailed Commander come down to such a minute difference in butt size/shape. How do you carry in this situation, anyway?

    Personally, I just can't see passing up the Commander reliability, sighting radius, velocity, capacity, and compatibility with using your full size mags in an attempt to gain a small fraction of an inch in butt size... have you even tried a LW bobtailed Commander on for size? The bobtail butt is likely to print even less than a CCO butt, in my estimation.

    By deciding not to reply to my first post, I presume that you have already considered and are simply not able to conceal a lightweight Commander, not even a bobtailed Commander/DW C-Bob/EB Cobra Carry and you simply chose not to communicate that.

    It is obvious from your last post that you should have no problem identifying and choosing among the available options suited to your, difficult, application.

    Let us know how it works out for you.
    The clowns in government office see the solution to everything is write more laws, creating the ever-mounting morass of legal handicaps that we citizens must labor under.

    STATE'S RIGHTS RULE and should be INVIOLATE. Feds butt out!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by flslim View Post
    colt cco lw is being put together via agreement with talo. I think i paid around 900 for mine. Not a bad choice imo.
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    Brian... Thank you for ultimately finding the courtesy to make a reply.

    That you wouldn't bother to reply to a post which someone put considerable time and effort into making, in response to your quest, is revealing.
    Easy on the veiled personal attacks. The original reason I did not respond to your first post was because of assumptions made by the part I quoted previously and that I also addressed in my previous post; this topic was made to discuss a specific style of 1911, namely to figure out who makes them and which ones are quality firearms, not to debate its merits or alternatives. I'm painfully aware of its limitations; the dress code I'm working around necessitates it though, and as mentioned I'd rather carry compromise than not carry at all. The CCO is one of a few options on the table, albeit an attractive one because of my familiarity with full sized 1911s. I was also busy throughout the day and checking in on my phone, which limits my ability to respond thoroughly. Mae culpa, I suppose.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, since my department will kindly provide 9mm and .40 S&W (I'll make them regret saying "as much as you can shoot." ), a Fusion or STI Guardian in either of those calibers might be the way to go. It looks like Dan Wesson fans have been trying for years to get them to release their CCO in other calibers, but it hasn't happened yet.


    (Side note: reevaluating my flippant Caracal C remark, they're actually smaller dimensionally than all CCO 1911s and carry 15+1 in 9mm. Heck, it looks like they're only 1.5" longer in the slide, .2" longer in the grip, and is .15" wider than the S&W Shield... which carries only 7+1. I might seriously have to consider one. )
    RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.


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  12. #27
    OD*
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    Just for clarification, Colt has not made a 1991A1 Commander model in years, they make the O4691 now (as pictured above).

    This is an 1991A1 Commander;


    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Just for clarification, Colt has not made a 1991A1 Commander model in years, they make the O4691 now...
    Thanks for that, OD. Old habits die hard! When the 1991A1 ORM got the NRM (same gun, but with brushed-polished flats and the new roll mark) I still kept calling it the 1991A1. I need to break that habit. I think I'll use the name "Colt Commander" (as distinguished from Colt Commander XSE), though, rather than 04691. ;-)

    As an aside, related to this post, I bought a blued ORM 1991A1 exactly like this one in your picture. And thought it might make a good base gun for some custom work.
    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post

    I sent it off to Ned Christiansen for some mods... just a bit of a transformation. Here's how it looked after the mods...


    Last edited by DHart; January 23rd, 2013 at 03:56 PM.
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    The clowns in government office see the solution to everything is write more laws, creating the ever-mounting morass of legal handicaps that we citizens must labor under.

    STATE'S RIGHTS RULE and should be INVIOLATE. Feds butt out!

  14. #29
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    Ruger SR1911 Commander (although it will probably be impossible to find one for a couple of years).
    EDC - Glock 21C, M&P Shield .40 OR Ruger SR1911 CMD AND
    Ruger LCP in Desantis Pocket Holster (backup)
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  15. #30
    OD*
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    That Commander turned out very nice indeed, Dan.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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