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About LinkBacksYes.Originally Posted by Mike1956
It's no more difficult to hide with the JPoint than it was without.
This is a discussion on Glock 19 vs Walther PPK/S .380 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 Did you keep your tricked-out 26 after you up-sized? Yes. It's no more difficult to hide with the JPoint than it ...
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Yes.
It's no more difficult to hide with the JPoint than it was without.
The Gospel Of Christ: The perfect message delivered by imperfect messengers!
MOVE + SHOOT = LIVE
"Let us deal with the world as it is, not as we would like it to be!" - from LOCKED ON (Tom Clancy)
Likewise with my chopped 17. The right holster makes it a breeze.
Kahn Souphanousinphone, Sr. "I could be manic, could be depressed. Real crapshoot."
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It takes a masters level competitive shooter a second or so to change mags. the only thing that matters is how fast do you change them when you are fighting for your life. Trust me on this, it won't be a second, not even close. It won't be the quarter to one third second to get the next round off out of the Glock 19.
So do an experiment. Put your spare magazine where ever you are going to carry it - perhaps in your support hand front pocket under your cell phone. Shoot the PPK dry, time the mag change. Dig it out of a pocket, dump old mag (which might stick), insert new mag, release the slide, get back on target and send a round into COM, in one second? Probably more like 5 to 10 with nobody shooting at you. Add the stress and loss of small muscle movement coordination that goes with adreneline release and it may well take you 10 seconds.
From what I've been told, in the stress of a fight for your life, nothing goes like it's planned.
I suggest you go shoot some IDPA matches with your Glock 19. The stress of compitition, shooting while moving, will begin to give you a chance to appreciate the difference. I was amazed at how poorly I shot during my first match, and it was a very low stress club match.
Near as I can tell, to get mag changes down to a couple of seconds in civillian combat, not competition shooting, conditions requires a LOT of practice to achieve, and a lot of practice to maintain.
Go with the Glock 19 IWB. I carry either a 19 or a 26 IWB all winter long under a sweatshirt. I have an XDs .45 (5+1 of .45ACP) for IWB summer carry. I'm 5'-8 and 158 lbs. The 19 doesn't hide on me in the summer, but the XDs does. I'm working to have the XDs replace the P238 I carried in a pocket last summer, that replaced the LCP I carried in that pocket for the two summers before that.
Fitch
"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master." Ayn Rand
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Love the PPK/S as far as looks & feel ,,,, if they could make that size in 9 mm
I would purchase one in a heart beat,,, just do not like 380's.
"It is better to remain silent and appear stupid, than to speak and remove all doubt."
"I fear the day when technology overlaps with our humanity, and the world will only have
a generation of misinformed idiots," Albert Einstein
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The Walther PPK .380 is a bit bulky for being a pocket pistol and the .380 ACP round has less stopping power than the 9mm round. Thus, I would recommend that you take a look at the following handguns: Walther PPS, Glock 26, Beretta Nano, Kahr PM9, Ruger LC9 and the Sig Sauer P938. They are all chambered in 9mm and are subcompact and very easy to conceal. If I had to recommend one gun for you, I would go for the Glock 26. That way you stay within the same platform, you can use the Glock 19 mags on your Glock 26, and the Glock 26 has much more capacity than the others.
Nonetheless, I think that you should try first on getting a good IWB holster (Crossbreed Supertuck, Comp-Tac Minotaur MTC, Galco Summer Comfort, etc.), a gun belt, and dress around your weapon. Additionally, you should take a defensive pistol course in order to improve your accuracy with the Glock 19 and your combat mindset.
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]
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That size in 9mm? Lots of them. Smaller than that in 9mm? Yup, look at the SIG P938, for example. Also look at the M&P Shield.
Fitch
"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master." Ayn Rand
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Different pistols with different operating procedures. It the Walther is an original good pistol. Of the S&W variety it will let you down.
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If you shoot a .380, be sure to shoot a very hot (read: Buffalo Bore 95-grain +P ball) load. This is the only way to ensure adequate penetration.
Good luck to you.
Scott
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Baloney.
Critical Defense, Gold Dots, Golden Saber and Ranger, not to mention just about any FMJ, all give "adequate penetration". And shooting anything that purports to be ".380 +P" is just a crapshoot, since there's no such thing (as defined by any reputable standard).
Not saying a .380 is the definitive combat weapon of choice, but it's a perfectly adequate round for most civilian CC.
Regards,
Jim
NRA Life Member
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Nothing wrong with either gun. There are some times where carrying a larger gun just is not an option, but having a gun like the Walther on you would be just fine. This would not bother me in the least bit. JMHO.
I would rather die on my feet, than to live on my knees.
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OMG!!
Thank you EVERYONE who bothered to take the time to respond to my naive post. I really am amazed at the wisdom I have gleaned from these responses. Thankyouthankyouthankyou.
Please, everyone be safe!
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I reiterate, FMJ in the .380 will be the only way to get the "adequate penetration" to breach the sternum and perforate any vital organs. let's face it, unless you're exceeding 1050 fps with a heavier 95-grain + bullet, you won't have the momentum to get the job done.
My information comes from an attorney that has worked a large number of shootings in conjunction with the Medical Examiner in Albuquerque NM, not some abstract technician. He's only been doing this for years. (Real life street data can't be trusted.)
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All these 380+P loads are nothing more than an ammo company useing an advertising ploy to get your attention and then load right to the sammi max standards. Most ammo today has been down loaded to safer standards for some of the borderline firearms out there. Much of this reduce ammo loads goes back 40 plus years. Even the 10mm was a hotter cartidge when the fbi tried to used it. Today you have to go to specialty ammo companys to get max loaded ammo. Or roll your own.
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Oh, but an attorney can?
Granted, meaningful analysis of street data is difficult, but what IS available (e.g. Hatcher, M&S, Chuck Hawks, etc.) show one-shot stops at about 50% for .380 FMJ vs. about 70% for JHP. Trust your attorney if you'd prefer.
Regards,
Jim
NRA Life Member
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