Beretta Bobcat 21A: .22 or .25 for CCW?

This is a discussion on Beretta Bobcat 21A: .22 or .25 for CCW? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Congrats and good luck. I had one back in the early 70s. It was my wifes carry gun for a while....

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Thread: Beretta Bobcat 21A: .22 or .25 for CCW?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array nontechguy's Avatar
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    Congrats and good luck. I had one back in the early 70s. It was my wifes carry gun for a while.
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  3. #32
    Member Array greyeyezz's Avatar
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    The three thirty-year-old Berettas pictured have light, silky smooth double-action triggers with a remarkable single-action letoff,
    Yep, the cleanest breaking DA trigger I've ever had on a gun.

    You can type in the serial # and see exactly when it was made. Mine is 22 yrs old.
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  4. #33
    Member Array robert98597's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    I saw S&W had a revolver in .22 mag but PricEY! And Taurus had another, $329 at some gunstore (new). Never had a Taurus though - know they get mixed reviews.
    I own 12 taurus handguns. I have never, never had an issue with any of them. I am pretty sure the bad rap they get are from people shooting reloads that are not correctly loaded or they are shooting some CHEAP reloads because they are cheap. I don't reload & only shoot brand name ammo, federal, Remington, Pmc, etc. I have never had a failure to feed, failure to fire or failure to eject. I did have a nephew break the safety on a PT-140. I sent it back to taurus with a letter telling them I would pay for it. Not only did they fix it for free. They replaced the main spring, trigger spring, and the recoil spring and the firing pin. When I called them to ask why, they said because they had the gun there they might as well do it. When they returned it it had another 10 round magazine, which it was not shipped to them with. People knock them but I love them.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I have a baby browning that was my grandfathers, chambered in .25 ACP. Its in mint condition, but shoots flawlessly. The kick is not bad, but I will say that I think the beretta flip top barrel guns have an odd kick to them, but I have not shot one in .25 acp, just the tomcat in .32 acp.

    I agree with the others here. If you are considering a .22, consider a revolver. I bought a .22 LR S&W airweight snubbie this year. 8 shot capacity. Very fun gun, I carry it for walking the dogs, shoots great, etc.

  6. #35
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    Have shot both on occasion. Neither belong to me.

    The .25 for certain. Better reliability and ... yes, more punch, even if it's only a teeny bit.

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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert98597 View Post
    I own 12 taurus handguns. I have never, never had an issue with any of them. I am pretty sure the bad rap they get are from people shooting reloads that are not correctly loaded or they are shooting some CHEAP reloads because they are cheap. I don't reload & only shoot brand name ammo, federal, Remington, Pmc, etc. I have never had a failure to feed, failure to fire or failure to eject. I did have a nephew break the safety on a PT-140. I sent it back to taurus with a letter telling them I would pay for it. Not only did they fix it for free. They replaced the main spring, trigger spring, and the recoil spring and the firing pin. When I called them to ask why, they said because they had the gun there they might as well do it. When they returned it it had another 10 round magazine, which it was not shipped to them with. People knock them but I love them.
    I own 3 Tauri; 2 M85 variants and a compact PT111 9mm. The wheelguns have been the ultimate in reliability, to the extent that I loaned one to a friend when his S&W Scandium snub went south in a training class. However, my PT111 had some problems 2-3 years after I bought it, and needed warranty service. Taurus corrected the problem and had the gun back to me in about 3 weeks, and there have been no problems since. So 33% of my Tauri have had problems, but they are all 100% healthy right now.

    Back to the thread: even on a bad day, the ignition reliability of any modern centerfire round is at the least an order of magnitude higher than that of a rimfire. For that reason alone, if your Beretta has a self defense role, then get the .25 auto.
    Smitty
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  8. #37
    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Total Protection Interactive - Powered by vBulletin I would sign on here and look up the on going thread by a memeber who goes by HH called the Old Man Gun, lots of great info and well though out work on the little gun for those whom need one
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  9. #38
    Member Array grbr's Avatar
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    1) .25 has a bigger cross section and less energy than .22 lr from the same barrel length. As far as .22/.25 goes, the less deforming/expansion the better, because you're fighting for penetration. .25 is FMJ (as opposed to .22 lr basically just being lead, at best coated). But still, at those energies I'd still put my money on the .22 LR with a tad more energy and smaller diameter getting better penetration most of the time.

    2) Quality .22 LR ammo is not less reliable than centerfire. There are competition shooters going on millions of rounds of CCI mini-mag with zero primer strike failures.

    3) Quality .22 LR feeds reliably in a quality gun. I would take .22 vs .25 feeding/operating reliability on a gun by gun basis rather than a "general rule" basis.

    4) Obviously .22 LR is much cheaper to practice with. Even today, .22 LR is NOT unavailable, it's just being scalped at triple price...which is STILL significantly cheaper than .25 ACP.

    In my opinion, except for extenuating circumstances (like you tried out the .22 LR version one for sale and it was unreliable in feeding or something) a .22 LR version stocked with mini-mags would be superior to the .25 ACP version of the same.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
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    Good choice in 25acp, I had the 22lr jammed all the time 25 should not jam as much . Also check out the jetfire the smaller version of the bobcat very smooth single action trigger you can empty that sucker very very fast into a bad dude . With 25acp only used fmj I believe there is a Winchester round called the xtp that is a soft tip round that is very good as well but it is very hard to find also the euro ammo sometimes is a bit zipper or so the story goes . The Smallest Minority: On the .25ACP and "Stopping Power" on the stopping power on the round . You got to aim for the key spots with a 25 ( face eyes etc ) .

    Also if you keep the 5.7 look for the red box ammo they are the leo only stuff but you can buy/have them legal they have a bit much punch to them .

    I also agree if you are carrying a 22 carry a revover with any rimfire the hard part is findign one with a trigger pull that is not terrbibe . Also 22lr revovler tend to hold 8 or so rounds .

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by grbr View Post
    1) .25 has a bigger cross section and less energy than .22 lr from the same barrel length. As far as .22/.25 goes, the less deforming/expansion the better, because you're fighting for penetration. .25 is FMJ (as opposed to .22 lr basically just being lead, at best coated). But still, at those energies I'd still put my money on the .22 LR with a tad more energy and smaller diameter getting better penetration most of the time.

    2) Quality .22 LR ammo is not less reliable than centerfire. There are competition shooters going on millions of rounds of CCI mini-mag with zero primer strike failures.

    3) Quality .22 LR feeds reliably in a quality gun. I would take .22 vs .25 feeding/operating reliability on a gun by gun basis rather than a "general rule" basis.

    4) Obviously .22 LR is much cheaper to practice with. Even today, .22 LR is NOT unavailable, it's just being scalped at triple price...which is STILL significantly cheaper than .25 ACP.

    In my opinion, except for extenuating circumstances (like you tried out the .22 LR version one for sale and it was unreliable in feeding or something) a .22 LR version stocked with mini-mags would be superior to the .25 ACP version of the same
    .
    In admittedly limited velocity testing, the energy figures shook out in favor of the .25 ACP over the .22 Long Rifle in handguns of equal barrel lengths. Not just a whole lot of ammunition selections from either cartridge were tested but the arbitrarily "best" choices were shot over the chronograph and tested for penetration. Both cartridges are weenie when fired from the vest pocket automatics but I'd take the .25 50 grain FMJ over any .22 Long Rifle load or so-called expanding .25 ACP load. There's no way I'd personally choose any hyper-velocity .22 as it's performance would be sure to be severely curtailed from a stub barrel. I'd be clawing for all the penetration I could get, expansion be hanged.

    The .22 Long Rifle cartridge is both overly long and rimmed, two characteristics that are detrimental to dependable feeding. That's just the way it is. The greater potential for a failure is real. The .25 ACP is said to be ideally configured for reliable feeding with its optimum cartridge diameter to length and it's effectively rimmless design. Quality .25 ACP pistols are nigh onto jam proof with good ammunition so perhaps there's something to the assertion to the .25 ACP cartridge's configuration for dependable function.

    Only one opinion.


    .25 ACP Factory loads

    Remington 51 grain FMJ, MV 789 fps, ME 71 ft./lbs.
    Winchester 50 grain FMJ, MV 852 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.*
    Hornady XTP 35 grain hollowpoint MV 1004 fps, ME 78*

    .25 ACP Handloads

    Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.6 grains Unique, MV 853 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.
    Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.2 grains Bullseye, 728 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.
    Rem. 51 grain bullet, (can't tell-it's a secret) Unique, MV 933 fps, ME 99 ft./lbs.



    Selected .22 Long Rifle cartridges fired from a Beretta Model 21A

    Remington high-velocity copper plated 40 grain solid (Golden Bullet)*
    MV 842 fps, ME 63 ft./lbs.

    Remington high-velocity lead 36 grain hollow point*
    MV 865 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.

    Winchester high-velocity lead 40 grain solid*
    MV 854 fps, ME 65 ft./lbs.

    Winchester high-velocity copper plated 36 grain hollow point*
    MV 894 fps, ME 64 ft./lbs
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by grbr View Post

    2) Quality .22 LR ammo is not less reliable than centerfire. There are competition shooters going on millions of rounds of CCI mini-mag with zero primer strike failures. .
    Could you cite some references to substantiate that statement?
    Smitty
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  13. #42
    New Member Array Happycat's Avatar
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    My bobcat 22LR functions flawlessly with CCI Mini Mags

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert98597 View Post
    I own 12 taurus handguns. I have never, never had an issue with any of them. I am pretty sure the bad rap they get are from people shooting reloads that are not correctly loaded or they are shooting some CHEAP reloads because they are cheap. I don't reload & only shoot brand name ammo, federal, Remington, Pmc, etc. I have never had a failure to feed, failure to fire or failure to eject. I did have a nephew break the safety on a PT-140. I sent it back to taurus with a letter telling them I would pay for it. Not only did they fix it for free. They replaced the main spring, trigger spring, and the recoil spring and the firing pin. When I called them to ask why, they said because they had the gun there they might as well do it. When they returned it it had another 10 round magazine, which it was not shipped to them with. People knock them but I love them.
    First let me say I have owns 4 taurus guns in my life with zero problems. I would not hesitate to buy another one. But with all do respect I don't understand your post. Why would taurus owners be the only ones shooting up the crappy reloads? There is no reason to believe taurus owners shoot, on average, any different type of ammo then other guns. If you theory is correct, then It actually looks worse for Taurus. It means other brand of guns can handle more types of ammo (because they shoot the crappy reloads fine).

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greyeyezz View Post
    Yep, the cleanest breaking DA trigger I've ever had on a gun.

    You can type in the serial # and see exactly when it was made. Mine is 22 yrs old.
    Firearm Technical Data
    Thanks! I will tomorrow.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
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    I had a Beretta Bobcat (.22lr) for a number of years. It was very ammunition sensitive (CCI-mini-mags, worked well) standard velocity did not function reliably. Like others have said I think there are better choices especially revolvers. A revolver in .22 mag would be a step in the right direction away from the Beretta in .22lr or .25. One other option to consider is a revolver in .327 magnum. It is a VERY mild shooting round that has similar ballistics to standard .38 loads. Good luck!
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