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Why does h&k not get much love?

5K views 59 replies 48 participants last post by  DwFall 
#1 ·
I'm just curious, how come not much is talked about h&k? I was under the impression they were quality. Am I missing something that precludes them from carry? Is it just the price?

I rarely see them referenced at all.

Thanks
 
#5 ·
Overall, I'd say it's the price, and the fact that H&K hasn't tried to conquer the law enforcement market with trade-in deals to good to refuse, a' la Glock and S&W. Border Patrol (or whatever they're called this month) seems to like 'em just fine. The H&Ks have historically been almost "over"-engineered and ahead of their time, such as the VP70Z with its molded polymer grip and 20+ round magazine, and the marvelous P7 with polygonal rifling and a locking system that would reliably eject a spent case even if the extractor was broken or missing.
 
#6 ·
Very good guns but I dont have one nor will I ever because to me they are just plain ugly.
 
#38 ·
Hah!

So what! All popular modern pistols just plain ugly these days. They all look like something found in the cordless drill section of Home Depot.

Weren't we not suppose to care a whit about a defensive pistol's looks? Only be concerned with its suitability? Seems like someone interjects that on the Forum on a weekly basis.

I don't believe it but it's frequently repeated so it must be true.

An H&K might be a more modern pistol I'd be willing to try out.
 
#8 ·
Fewer people own them because they are rather pricey...and everyone thinks that what they own is the best (or at least that's the case on the interwebs)

Many people say that they don't like them because they don't want a certain type of trigger setup....but the honest truth is that if you choose an HK45 or a USP, you can choose pretty much any trigger type you want - single action with a manual safety, double action only (HK calls it LEM), or DA/SA with a decocker. Personally, the ergonomics on the HK's work very well for me - and that was what made me buy both of the HK's that I currently own. I'd be lying if I said that the exceptional reputation that HK has for reliability isn't a plus (mine run more reliably than an watch I own), over-engineering, and testing their products to a ridiculous level isn't something that I like....but the deciding factor was the way that the pistols fit my hand.
 
#9 ·
From a previous thread:

The DA/SA trigger leaves a lot to be desired, but the LEM variants are pretty nice. I run mine as SAOs so the DA trigger doesn't bother me.

As for the cost, yeah but HK has to pay for the engineering somehow.

I've never heard of HK having to recall a firearm.

I've never head of HK having to send out a ton or replacement parts to fix breakages, the only part that seems prone to failure is the trigger return springs, usually on higher round count guns, and that's depends on what spring you've got. I don't think I've heard of a 8.5lbs spring breaking yet.

I've never heard of HK having to revamp and send out replacement recoil springs.

I've never heard of HKs having rust problems

I've never heard an obscene amount of guns having to go back to the factory.

I've never heard of HKs having extractor issues.

I've never heard of them having any "quality" issues.



All in all they're pretty well built guns and they have much less issues than almost every other manufacturer I can think of.


The only real drawbacks are:

DA/SA trigger and if you shoot the gun enough, you'll learn how to shoot it well. If you MUST have a DA/SA trigger though, I would probably opt for something else. But if you're open to double action only, the LEM trigger is pretty nice.

Parts availability is extremely lacking. However I've ordered some stuff direct from HK with no problems so far. But aftermarket support is very lacking.

Magazines are expensive, however an HK mag is expected to last the average life span of the gun - 20K.


If you want a glimpse of what to expect from HK, read the last two entries of the P30 and Hk45 tests done by Todd Green of Pistol-Training.com

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » P30 Thursday: Week Forty-Two

91,322 rounds
13 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages

test ended at: 91,622 rounds

From 1-May-09 to 19-Mar-10 — 322 days — the pistol fired 91,322 rounds.

Of those 322, it spent 130 days at the range, averaging over 700 rounds per trip.

It spent 512 hours at the range, averaging almost 180 rounds per hour. By the way, 512 hours is more than three weeks at twenty four hours per day, seven days a week.

That rnd/hr number is a bit skewed, though, because it includes many hours on the range teaching. When you look at just my personal practice routines, the gun was regularly firing 350-550 rounds per hour.

During the entire test, the pistol experienced a total of thirteen stoppages. Those who have followed the test from the beginning will remember that the first seven were the result of an out-of-spec mainspring that was replaced before the 10,000 round mark. The last three, as reported above, were in quick succession due to the gun reaching the end of its service life. Between the time when the mainspring was replaced and the gun’s final death throes, there were only three stoppages… that’s less than one stoppage per 27,000 rounds fired.
pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » HK45 Endurance Test: Week Thirty Seven
50,000 rounds
1 stoppages 1 (*) malfunctions 1 parts breakages

50,000 rounds in just over eight months.

52 total days of testing

96 trips to the range
average 520.8 rounds per trip

392 hours of range time
average 127.5 rounds per hour

The HK45 was fired in nine States… and one foreign country, eh?

Twelve different types of ammunition from nine different manufacturers were used:

CCI Blazer 230gr FMJ: 26,185
Federal American Eagle 230gr FMJ: 21,354
Remington UMC 230gr MC: 850
Winchester 230gr Ranger SXT: 542
PMC 230gr FMJ: 600
ASYM 230gr FMJ Match: 124
ASYM 185gr National Match Target: 120
Black Hills 230gr FMJ: 50
Mag Tech 230gr MC: 50
Pro Load 230gr Match FMJ: 50
Winchester (white box) 230gr FMJ: 50
Remington 230gr Golden Saber BJHP: 25

The pistol was only cleaned seven times during the entire test, going 10,181 rounds between cleanings at one point.
 
#11 ·
Great guns... but have you seen the prices ? Glock, S&W, Ruger, springfield etc all have weapons of outstanding qaulity and performance for half the cost.
 
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#28 ·
And in doing so, take a risk that they damage their reputation for quality and durability. HK has made a business decision that takes that risk off the table. That's why I would choose an HK over most anything else.
 
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#14 ·
I got a full size USP .40 i will TRADE. Show me some pice of what you got. i got the case and two 10 round mags.
 
#22 ·
What are you looking for? Anything in particular?
 
#17 ·
Exactly what others have said, they are really expensive. I thought about getting a P2000SK 9mm a couple months ago, even pre panic the price out the door it was going to run me over $1000. They make guns of excellent quality and finish, but I just couldn't convince myself that it did anything that the M&P9c couldn't do, and for half the price.

A friend of mine owns a MK23 (he's rich), I've never shot it but it looks like should come with a sling mount! Huge for a handgun that only holds 10 rounds. Random trivia: depending on the configuration, the MK23 is actually larger than the MP7 SMG.
 
#19 ·
Price, larger and heavier than many alternatives, not "made in USA," and not nearly so many who've had experience with them sufficient to know the differences in reliability, durability, feel. (In the same way that, say, Bentley cars compare to more commonly available cars.)
 
#20 ·
Price and mediocre trigger. They don't deliver capability beyond what a Glock, M&P, CZ P-07, or FNX does, to name a few lower cost items. Proprietary rail on the USPs is another negative.

Looking deeper, they are a GREAT choice (better than alternatives) for people who crawl through mud or swim in the ocean on their way to a gunfight. This is useless for the layman. They are engineered for a level of durability that will never be required or noticed by those of us in the civilian world. The new models (P30, HK 45) have amazing ergonomics.
 
#23 ·
I like their pistols, and have carried one before, on duty, but for some reason I always shot the Sigs and GLOCKs a bit better.

Now in the SMG world, their isn't any competition, IMHO for their MP-5's. That is the sweetest gun I've ever shot, hands down. Keeping 3 round bursts in a 4" pie plate, while moving, at various distances is a huge confidence builder.
 
#24 ·
HK is expensive, a lot of people ding them for that. In the past they've also had a reputation for not really giving a crap about American (non-governmental) customers. I think that HK USA has improved this situation. The fact that they're a German company also puts off some Americans.

But I think that if you look past the price and the "image" there's not a better gun in the world. My favorite handgun in the world is probably the Browning Hi-Power. BUT...If I had to depend on a pistol to save my life I'd hope I had a USP in my holster.
 
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#29 ·
I may be an apostate here but of all the handguns I've ever owned, only one of them was made by an "American" firm, and it was a Kahr PM9 that I recently traded off. I am at a loss as to why people so strongly believe that American pistols are better.
 
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