9 vs. 40 vs 45

This is a discussion on 9 vs. 40 vs 45 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mexican_ninja To pickpocket... No. I don't have documents that cite that, just experience in my ER. However, you did brought up a ...

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Thread: 9 vs. 40 vs 45

  1. #31
    Member Array Mass-Diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mexican_ninja View Post
    To pickpocket...

    No. I don't have documents that cite that, just experience in my ER. However, you did brought up a good point and I agree. Instead of looking at what round if effective. Maybe we should look at what factors affect a round.

    When I mentioned about people walking around with 9mm bullets, most of them were hit in the abdomen, shoulders, legs, and few in the chest. I have yet to receive a patient that has been hit in the head or heart. Of course, we are not a level 1 trauma hosp and most our patients that have gun shots come in private cars because they refuse an ambulance. The ones that manage to come to our hosp that were shot with a higher caliber recieved more damage. A few survived but rarely without a lasting effect (such as lost of use of a limb or removing a damaged organ) Placement is a key factor that I have failed to apply as well. Nonetheless, I still like my .40cal.

    IME, people can survive all sorts of stuff. (Without giving away too much as both were rather high profile); I've cared for a woman who shot in the face with a .357mag (entering at her jaw and exiting her opposite side eye socket) and a man shot (by LEOs) 6+ times in the COM with hp .40s. Both patients survived.

    I have not been able to draw any conclusions about caliber from my experiences, except that many, many people can take a COM shot from .38/9mm/.40 (we don't see many .45) and live. In fact, given the choice, I'd rather be shot in the chest (not the heart) with a .40 then in the belly with a .380.

    Personally, I think all the modern calibers (with high quality ammo) work pretty well at killing people, I just wouldn't count on any to drop a big guy that mad and on drugs. There's a lot of luck involved (hitting a tiny artery or the heart), but if you have good placment (never mind COM vs leg, more like COM vs miss) and keeping shooting until the threat stops I think you have the best chance.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    It all comes down to what you can shoot well. And of course the other 2 words. Shot placement. They all will kill if you put the projectile in the right spot. Remember shot placement and practice practice and more practice.
    Shoot straight and be safe.

    Sixgun

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array glock21guy's Avatar
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    Pick the caliber you can shoot the best. I think a lager mass bullet will do a better job. But if you can't hit the target accurately, then a smaller caliber is the way to go.
    Aaron

    If you don't protect your self, who will?

  5. #34
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    << sets back , gets out the popcorn , and prepairs for the train wreck lol .

    Ditto on that.

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    find a gun that feels comfortable for your needs and one you can shoot well, in a caliber you are happy with...then practice, practice,practice, then carry that firearm everyday. The rest will work itself out.
    OR buy an XD (or similar) in every caliber made, and shoot them all.
    ----DOC-----

    --people ask why I carry, and I show them this picture. I think it says it all.--

    NRA Certified Instructor--many disciplines

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    9, 40, 45? (.357SIG beats'em all- and now get back/look out, someones gonna blow) and don't forget the 10mm. No one I know, including myself, would volunteer to be shot by any of them.

    Please, Lets go to a 454 Cassul, 460 Magnum,and 500 Magnum debate, as this one has already been shot to death.
    Where is that popcorn? Maybe some nachos and cheese...........

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I think it is very important to remember that no one has ever complianed about getting shot with to small of a caliber.
    There Folks is probley the best answer of all

    Though i Am a 45Acp guy

    i know i don't want to be shoot with anything even them little plastic 6mm BB's

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devone6 View Post
    9, 40, 45? (.357SIG beats'em all- and now get back/look out, someones gonna blow) and don't forget the 10mm. No one I know, including myself, would volunteer to be shot by any of them.

    Please, Lets go to a 454 Cassul, 460 Magnum,and 500 Magnum debate, as this one has already been shot to death.
    Where is that popcorn? Maybe some nachos and cheese...........
    No Debate the 500 with the 700 Grain bullets rules them all

    it also cleans and processes and packages the deer/bear you shoot with it

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    they all are good. just learn to shoot the one you got and carry it. don't leave it at home or in the car.

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Whole heartdly agree Bud on the 500, just trying go a different road, as this one is many times traveled.
    It's nice when the bullet processes 'em for ya like the 500Mag.

  12. #41
    Member Array dwillar's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Thanks for the link. A very interesting collection of real world experience to go along with the reams of "gelatin data".

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    Anybody here know the forum record, in terms of page count, for a "caliber war"...

  14. #43
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    I have only one personal experience to share. Two BG X four rounds = two dead BGs. The rounds? Two .22 magnum fired from a High Standard derringer. Two .38 S&W LRN fired from S&W Model 10.



    Like Bud says I don't want to be shot with any of them. But if you don't hit them in the right spot it does not matter what the caliber or the type of round is.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    Everyone should go over to www.stoppingpower.net if you want to talk about bullet performance because Evan Marshall actually has some level of real information based on some facts.

    Note: I like 9 and 40 on the heavier side!
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceRider View Post
    Is there a great difference in the stopping power of the various round sizes?
    The way I look at it is this way: how much displaced vital matter can you inflict on an attacking BG in a short period of time? That is a function of several factors, and the bullet's diameter and weight is the least worry.

    One, it matters how quickly I can bring the weapon to bear, irrespective of caliber of ammunition used. If it's a big dogpile of a weapon and cannot be brought on-target quickly, it's a detriment to the goal. Two, it matters how accurate I can be across multiple shots, not just plinking single shots at the range. Thus, I must be accurate on follow-on shots, under stress, able to handle the weapon, recoil, flame/smoke and noise over time, from a variety of positions, even changing positions. Three, it matters how much damage I can inflict in that brief span of time. To paraphrase, it ain't the meat, it's the motion. More bullets on-target more quickly can make up for a lot of bullet size.

    The reality is that a well-balanced, small-ish, high-cap 9mm semi-auto works best for me in the shooting department. I simply haven't found a single .40 or .45 that has the combination of above traits that will yield the same result. I can do a heck of a lot of damage to a 10lb country ham or side of beef, with my 9mm. Can't imagine a living, breathing BG would fare much different. As a complete package, it also works best for me, in terms of also being concealable, affordable, with ammo that's easily found and replenished anywhere I go.

    A lot of folks have debated, over the years, as to the best bullet, all other things held constant. That's fine, if all other things could be held constant. Awfully hard to do. Even the same gun with a replaceable top end won't feel identical and, thus, will generally affect performance when it counts. For straight-up stopping power comparisons, the noted web sites above are a good place to start.

    Best "stopping power" of a given bullet? To my way of thinking that's a question with a non-existent answer. The "right" question is: what will best stop the BG. And, IMO, that's not the bullet but the whole package.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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