Buyer Beware

Buyer Beware

This is a discussion on Buyer Beware within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BUYER BEWARE !!!! Smith And Wesson Performance Center OK Guys -Listen to this story --------- -------This is a Smith and Wesson Performance Center gun , ...

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Thread: Buyer Beware

  1. #1
    Member Array Emjimb's Avatar
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    Buyer Beware

    BUYER BEWARE !!!! Smith And Wesson Performance Center

    OK Guys -Listen to this story --------- -------This is a Smith and Wesson Performance Center gun , purchased NIB _(Model 327 )--

    I go to the range with S and B and Winchester ammo ------------I get NO Fires - 80% over 70-80 Rounds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    So I call S and W PC------First question -"what ammo"-so I tell him -" oh yea -hard primers " I say well the Winchesters did not fire either -------"Ok send it back " ...I tell them also that the grip screw is sticking out past the grips --The gentleman says-(Are you ready )----"You can Just Cut It off " -!!! -----So I ask if they can email a shipping label ----"no" --can I pay for overnight and you can reimburse me --"No" ---how long will it take ---"about 5-7 days to send me a label and once we get it about 3-4 weeks ". So after 5 days I call and complain and guess what -got it right away this time ---so the gun goes Bye Bye .................... It comes back -and I run to the range with Black Hills ammo (Good stuff-I thought ) as I wanted to eliminate the problem of ""Oh Yea -hard primers"".........and I fire off 64 rounds with one NO Fire ---I come home and I calmly write an email back to S and W telling them the problem -----OK are you ready -I will copy here their response :
    When you do shoot again, we would suggest trying a different
    brand of ammunition so that can be ruled out.


    WHAT!!!!! I write another email demanding to speak with someone in authority and also place 2 Phone calls -------no one gets on the phone (Surprise -Surprise).but I get another email :
    Jim,
    I am the supervisor, and I just want to make sure that
    we rule out the possibilty of any problems with a specific
    brand of ammunition. The gun was repaired and test fired
    before it was shipped and we didn't have any malfunctions.
    Please put the pistol through it's paces next time you shoot and
    then let me know the results.
    When you do shoot again, we would suggest trying a different
    brand of ammunition so that can be ruled out.

    So I guess that I purchased a "hand built"" custom " "Wolf spring." "Performance Center"'......etc.etc...revolver with a MSRP of $`1200+, and ..
    I can't use S and B ,Winchester, Black Hills .........** Hey-- does Sand W manufacture ammo in the Performance Center they can sell me -???***--------------------So in closing let me say that my old Colt Python shoots everything (and well I might add) as does my Ruger 44mag. Alaskan and the guy at the range the first time had an old Taurus-all my Hard Primers went bang there too!!!!!!!!!
    BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  2. #2
    Member Array GlockinItUp's Avatar
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    I was talking to a local LEO in my local gunshop, and he had some problems with a S&W performance center revolver. I don't remember exactly what model it was, but when he first received it the finish was... lets say less than perfect. Otherwise the gun functioned normally. He sent it in (he didn't say he had problems with customer service) and when he got it back, the finish was perfect, but the gun wasn't functioning great. He sentr it back again, and I think it's still there. Looks like the quality control dept. over at S&W leaves a lot to be desired. I too would be wary.
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at...

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Thats to bad .. That is the only thing i havent had problems with is my smith wheelies i had a 1911SC and it was POS and repair was worthless

    Now when i called for a extra comp blockoff for me 627 performance center they told me 2-3 months they had to make it the orginal started rusting even though it was never used

    Sure enough 3 months later it turned up

    is it the snubbie 327 or the 5"?

  4. #4
    Member Array roadrash's Avatar
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    First I would make sure the strain screw is tight,If so Then I would change the hammer spring myself ,and maybe the strain screw!and eliminate that possibility before I sent it back to those woodchucks!

  5. #5
    Member Array Emjimb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White View Post
    Thats to bad .. That is the only thing i havent had problems with is my smith wheelies i had a 1911SC and it was POS and repair was worthless

    Now when i called for a extra comp blockoff for me 627 performance center they told me 2-3 months they had to make it the orginal started rusting even though it was never used

    Sure enough 3 months later it turned up

    is it the snubbie 327 or the 5"?
    It is the snubby -and BTW my new sc 1911-had abroken sear -Day One -6 rounds and then doubles -----maybe that should have warned me !

  6. #6
    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    This is a sad story. S&W used to be the best. I've used their revolvers for years and loved them. This sort of thing is why Glock and Sig are eating their lunch.

  7. #7
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    I cant think of one REALLY good auto made by Smith. They made some OK ones, but not any greats. Revolvers are a different story.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    the problem is with the hammer spring. when s&w did the trigger job they went to far. i did this once with my model 19 and it gave me problems will all types of factory and reload ammo.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    the problem is with the hammer spring. when s&w did the trigger job they went to far.
    I totally agree with this, both the cause and why they did it.

    While I know little (almost nothing!) about revolvers, springs, etc., I've shot with a lot of wheelgunners in my IDPA squads over the years. To a person, they seem to be on a quest for that perfect trigger, and in so doing end up with too light a strike on the primer (that I do understand!).

    It's funny, but many times I've been advised by wheelgunners that "Federal has the softest primers", so that's their choice of factory ammo to assure there is a boom each time the hammer falls.

    I'd encourage some solid phone conversations, not just e-mail, before hanging Smith & Wesson Performance Center out to dry publicly. I have heard many many stories about the S&W Performance Center, and every one was good. So, when it's resolved, please come back and "unsmear" S&W, for I'm sure they will see this through with you.
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    During a break at a class last week my instructor brought out a S&W N-Frame chambered in .45 ACP that he'd done a trigger job on. It shot just fine with his reloads, but when he went to factory ammo about 3/4ths of the rounds would FTF the first time through. Some of them would cook off the second time around, but some refused to go at all (part of the issue may have been the thickness of the moon clips he was using).

    I had a chance to shoot it and, thanks in part to the dud rounds, I was able to shoot it very accurately. The trigger pull was smooth and light and there was absolutely no reason to flinch when pulling the trigger; it was ALWAYS a surprise when it went off.

    Seriously though, sticking with soft primers might be OK for a plinker, but for a self defense gun I'd far rather have a heavier trigger than any chance of a FTF on a light strike.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array razorblade's Avatar
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    I shoot IPSC and ICORE using a S&W 625 revolver that has been gutted out and refit. I'm using a 6-7 lbs hammer spring and even at THAT weight, I can't sufficiently ignite factory ammo. Then again, I never shoot a match using factory ammo anyways. For my reloaded ammo, I use Federal primers. The rule of thumb in regards to revolvers with a reduced hammer spring, use Federal primers. To remedy this, you might want to try picking up a factory standard weight (by Wolff, or whomever) and try a factory load. For revolvers, any kind of light primer strike (you can tell by examining the primer of a round that didn't fire) is a direct result of a hard primer/reduced spring weight combo. I'm not going to run S&W into the ground, but they should have known better than to put a reduced weight into a snubby. And for snubbies, you don't want reduced anyways because you'll run the risk of a (dum, dum, dum) light primer strike. For anykind of carry revolver, you need to use factory standard weight to guarentee sufficient primer ignition. I also know what the 'smith was mentioning when he said "cut off the grip screw" that extends too far out. That's a pretty common thing too, with aftermarket grips. Sometimes the fit doesn't exactly match, and you have the head of the screw extending past the grip. It's common to measure just how far the screw extends, remove the screw, and cut off the that amount from the end (the end you thread into the grip). That SHOULD have been done at the factory before you ever recieved it.
    If you are considering switching out the hammer spring for a standard weight, it's fairly easy to do, but for all legal purposes (and the fact I don't want to get the forum in trouble) I'd say take it to a smith. If you however, were curious as to how someone were to do it, it would only take 7-10 minutes and would only require removing the grip, loosening the tention screw, replacing said spring, tightening tentioning screw all the way (for factory weight), replace grip, and take to the range. I know that's something you weren't expecting, but it really is a "minor" fix.

    hope this helps

    good luck :)

  12. #12
    New Member Array YellowJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I cant think of one REALLY good auto made by Smith. They made some OK ones, but not any greats. Revolvers are a different story.
    Hmmm...that seems like an awfully broad statement. If you don't like S&W autos or DA/SA autos in general, just say so. But to say they never made a REALLY good one would seem to indicate that you have never owned one or read what many others, including lots of LEOs, have said about their S&W autos...they just keep on ticking. In fact, it seems quite a few LEOs bought theirs when given the chance because they ran so good. I like my old 5904 alot. It runs on anything I put through it without a hiccup. I would love to buy a 3913 which many here and on other forums have said may be the perfect 9mm for a CCW. I'm not sure I could argue that their newer autoloaders are as good as the older ones. BTW, I own a 6" M27 that I will not be getting rid of anytime soon.

    Rick

  13. #13
    Member Array jowgafist's Avatar
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    just another reason for me to continue boycotting S&W

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array razorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowJacket View Post
    Hmmm...that seems like an awfully broad statement. If you don't like S&W autos or DA/SA autos in general, just say so. But to say they never made a REALLY good one would seem to indicate that you have never owned one or read what many others, including lots of LEOs, have said about their S&W autos...they just keep on ticking. In fact, it seems quite a few LEOs bought theirs when given the chance because they ran so good. I like my old 5904 alot. It runs on anything I put through it without a hiccup. I would love to buy a 3913 which many here and on other forums have said may be the perfect 9mm for a CCW. I'm not sure I could argue that their newer autoloaders are as good as the older ones. BTW, I own a 6" M27 that I will not be getting rid of anytime soon.

    Rick
    not to veer too far off topic, but i got a chance to shoot the their new M&P. I must say if they are making lame autos, the M&P isn't one of them.

  15. #15
    Member Array heritageguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I cant think of one REALLY good auto made by Smith. They made some OK ones, but not any greats. Revolvers are a different story.
    Obviously you haven't ever seen a Model 52 (.38spl wadcutter) or a Model 41 (.22).
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk! --Tuco

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