Unplanned LGS Visit...HK Envy Ensues

Unplanned LGS Visit...HK Envy Ensues

This is a discussion on Unplanned LGS Visit...HK Envy Ensues within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Was out doing some clothes shopping this morning in the vicinity of a LGS I visit from time to time, being it's Saturday and I ...

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Thread: Unplanned LGS Visit...HK Envy Ensues

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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Unplanned LGS Visit...HK Envy Ensues

    Was out doing some clothes shopping this morning in the vicinity of a LGS I visit from time to time, being it's Saturday and I had no schedule I figured I'd stop in. As usual lately, practically nothing AR related except display models (not for sale, they are smart and keep a number of common ARs there for people to see and order, aka suckers). Took a look at the HK P2000SK in .357 Sig with the LEM trigger, now I kind of want one but have some questions.

    1) I dry fired the LEM trigger, I liked the feel but how does it change after the first shot? Unfortunately the salesman was kind of talking out his ejection port about a number of things (like that the .357 Sig is derived from the magnum) so I don't put much value in his explanation.

    2) Can the SK model be carried IWB reasonably? Right now I carry a G27 or an M&P9c usually and have no issues.

    3) How is the recoil? I've shot .357 out of Glocks before and liked the sharp but brief pop it has. Is it like a 9mm +P+ at all?

    4) How hard is it to find accessories like mags, sights and holsters? I've heard that HK mags are really expensive even before the panic, is this true?

    5) Is it worth the price? They will sell at MSRP but after tax it is going to be close to $1000. I don't really 'need' another gun, but fortunately business has been good the last year and looks to continue to be in the future so I have the disposable income to pay for it out right in full with money I actually have. That said, I really like the gun but this is not a critical purchase no matter how I look at it and $1000 is a significant chunk of change. If I order one they said they can have a brand new from the distributor one for me in about a week (I don't buy display model guns).

    This will join my current collection of an M&P40, G27gen4, Kel Tec PF9, and an M&P9c that my girlfriend has on indefinite loan until her 9c comes in (ordered already).

    I know asking if you should buy a gun on a gun forum is like asking Charlie Sheen if he wants a line of coke but I'm hoping to get some informed advice.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJB_17 View Post
    Was out doing some clothes shopping this morning in the vicinity of a LGS ... and I figured I'd stop in.
    You're a brave man, Charlie Brown. Get the SK! Get the SK! Go shirtless, if you must, but get the SK!



    Quote Originally Posted by MJB_17 View Post
    Took a look at the HK P2000SK in .357 Sig with the LEM trigger, now I kind of want one but have some questions.
    The P2000SK is probably my favorite H&K. The P30's much more ergonomic, but there's something subtly wonderful about the P2000SK's fit, balance in the hand. Great format.



    1) I dry fired the LEM trigger, I liked the feel but how does it change after the first shot?
    Realize that repeated dry-fire is a bit different than the slide cycling and re-cocking the trigger system. It'll feel a tad different than when actually firing.

    According to H&K's description of the LEM:

    The P2000 SK is available with Law Enforcement Modification (also known as Combat Defense Action) trigger system introduced in 2001 on the USP Compact "LEM" (Law Enforcement Modification) model. This unique pre-cocked hammer system combines the advantages of a cocked striker component (constant level of trigger pull and short trigger travel from first to last round fired) with a double action hammer system. The LEM/CDA trigger pull has been reduced to 7.3 - 8.5 pounds of pressure (32.5 - 37.8 Newtons), compared to 12 - 15 pounds (53.4 - 66.7 N) found on many conventional double action pistols. Optional adjustment by an HK certified armorer can bring the trigger pull into the 5.5 pound (24.5 N) range.



    2) Can the SK model be carried IWB reasonably? Right now I carry a G27 or an M&P9c usually and have no issues.
    It's wider than some prefer, at ~1.4" or so. Like a glock, it is a rather "chunky" shape. But with the right holster, assuming your body shape tolerates a 1.4" wide gun at that spot then it shouldn't be much different than any other gun carried IWB. Have done so for some years. As with any gun, have a great belt, well-designed holster that matches your body's shape/padding, and carry it at the most-comfortable spot.



    3) How is the recoil? I've shot .357 out of Glocks before and liked the sharp but brief pop it has. Is it like a 9mm +P+ at all?
    Pretty darned good, for a "plastic" gun. IMO, it's a bit better at recoil management than the Glock 19. My carry ammo is the DoubleTap JHP 124gr +P, and I've run a couple of different +P+ rounds through it, as well. It's as good as anything else out there, aside from a larger/longer full-steel gun. Roughly equivalent to the CZ P-01 9mm, which has a lightweight alloy frame, and the SK is still several ounces lighter.



    4) How hard is it to find accessories like mags, sights and holsters? I've heard that HK mags are really expensive even before the panic, is this true?
    H&K magazines have never been the cheapest items on the shelf, you're right. If you're going to purchase, do so when it includes the number of spare magazines you require for the purchase. Else, in this climate you might never see them. Have the dealer do whatever they need in order to procure them. That's about what I did. A P2000SK with ~5-6 mags is golden, right now.



    5) Is it worth the price? They will sell at MSRP but after tax it is going to be close to $1000. I don't really 'need' another gun, but ...
    Depends on what you value. If you don't need it, then it just needs to satisfy your stuff-lust sufficiently.

    For me, though, it's exceptionally reliable, tolerant of nearly all ammo you can find, durable, very well made, resistant of the elements (rain, mud, etc), cleans up easily. The fully-ambidextrous operating controls are wonderful, assuming your fingers can reach/operate all of them easily. IMO, it's one of the top two or three pistols on the market right now, bar none.


    This will join ... an M&P9c that my girlfriend has on indefinite loan until her 9c comes in (ordered already).
    Ah, well. Then you absolutely need a P2000SK. 357SIG is going to be hard to stop shooting, at the range. You'll never want to go home. Great carry round.



    About the only thing I would prefer was improved on the SK is the "stickiness" of the grip. The plastic/composite surface isn't the grippiest thing on the market. I'd prefer a grittier stippling, or even a rubberized/texturized type pebbling, something along the lines of what Hogue achieves on its wrap-around grips, but that's just me. Works fine. For somewhat larger hands, it's wonderful. For somewhat smaller, it can be a bit of a challenge in certain slippery conditions. UP to you, as to whether it's the right grip for you. Nicely, it's got the swappable backstraps, though no alternative grip panels (as there are no panels).


    I know asking if you should buy a gun on a gun forum is like asking Charlie Sheen if he wants a line of coke but I'm hoping to get some informed advice.
    Dumb question! CS always wants a line. Or at least, that's what the latest PantsDropper Magazine says in their Sheen Currents column.
    GaryB likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    I understand your point, but at least it's better than asking on the HK forum (HKPRO.COM Home). You do realize one of the responses is going to be that you could buy 2 Glocks for the money. The only problem with that is that you would have 2 more Glocks, and still have no HK.

    I have an HK P30S, and I really like it. Mine is the version 3 (DA/SA) model with the manual safety. I will say up front that I am not a Glock fan, so not having one is not a problem for me. Is it worth the cost? I didn't think so, until I held the P30S, and then actually shot it. Now I think it has been well worth the money. As far as HK magazines, yes they are fairly expensive compared to Glock, perhaps, but I am used to buying magazines for FNs, CZs, and Berettas, so I don't think the price is extremely exorbitant. The big problem, right now, is that magazines in general are difficult to find. If you really want to get ripped off, check out magazine prices on gunbroker.

    Why don't you PM JD and ask about the SK. JD is pretty much our HK expert, and surely will have some valuable input for you.
    GaryB likes this.
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

    - Anon

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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses so far, I appreciate it.

    One question I forgot to ask both at the store and in my OP is:

    Is it true that the USP magazines are the same for the P2000 and P30? I've never seen a P30 in person but I'm looking at it online right now, is it a reasonable carry size? The P2000 looks a lot smaller in pictures that it is in person, it really is a full size gun and the SK is about the same size as a subcompact Glock.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJB_17 View Post
    Thanks for the responses so far, I appreciate it.

    One question I forgot to ask both at the store and in my OP is:

    I've never seen a P30 in person but I'm looking at it online right now, is it a reasonable carry size? The P2000 looks a lot smaller ...
    Yes, they're different. Check the dimensional specs on the H&K web site, to confirm. The P30's a full-sized gun (if ~7" OAL can be called full-sized), and the P2000SK's compact by comparison, about 1/2" shorter length and 1" less tall.

    Roughly speaking, it's about the same difference as a CZ P-01 to the CZ 2075 RAMI, or the Glock 19 to the Glock 26.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 24th, 2013 at 03:00 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    I definitely want one. I do not know if I would be able go carry it comfortably, but not all guns are for carry. A .357 Sig version seems an awesome package!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    So when do you pick it up? *wink wink*
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    So when do you pick it up? *wink wink*
    Hah, getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I can order via phone (store is about 45 mins away) and pay a 20% deposit then the rest and the 4473 when it comes in if/when I do so.

  9. #9
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    The H&K 9mm compact is my primary carry pistol and I luv it. Added a rubber grip.
    Oh, the Tucker Texas Heritage IWB has gotten broken in since this pic...


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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    I don't know your situation, but if I could get one, and funds weren't an issue (hk Is pricey) I would be complaining about a 10 day waiting period. You are much more patient and thoughtful than I!
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    I don't know your situation, but if I could get one, and funds weren't an issue (hk Is pricey) I would be complaining about a 10 day waiting period. You are much more patient and thoughtful than I!
    I can buy it outright out of my disposable income checking account. That said, I'm not in the habit of spending $1000 or so on a whim, this is definitely a 'because I want one' purchase. No waiting period here, just the wait for it to come from their distributor.
    BigJon10125 likes this.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...salesman may have just said it wrong...the .357 Sig isn't derived from the .357, but it was invented to rival the power of the .357 in the pistol platform...from the Wiki article history of the .357 Sig:

    "... Developed in 1994, the new cartridge was named "357" to highlight its purpose: to duplicate the performance of 125-grain (8.1 g) .357 Magnum loads fired from 4-inch (100 mm) barreled revolvers, in a cartridge designed to be used in a semi-automatic pistol. Performance is similar to the 9x23mm Winchester."

    The .357 SIG provided a self-defense cartridge close in performance to a 125 gr .357 Magnum, but from a semi-automatic pistol with greater ammunition capacity

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Here's another tempting item: Ritchie Hideaway IWB holster for P2000SK @ Lightning Arms Sports, Beaverton OR ... in stock.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    I've carried a P2000sk for several years. I can't answer some of your questions as I have a 9mm SA/DA, however I can say that the pistol is remarkable in taming recoil. it is easy to shoot well. Despite the small size, it shoots as comfortably as a larger full size range gun. The gun is extremely reliable. I carry OWB.

    The P2000sk can share mags with the USPc and P2000. Sometimes 10 round USPc mags can be found on the cheap and are great for practice. HK makes a spacer to fit on the longer mag to fill the gap between base and grip bottom.

    Is the gun worth the money? IMHO, yes. I'm well off enough to carry what I want, at least well off enough for one really good gun. The best I've come across is the P2000sk. I'd buy it again and I'll carry it 'til HK, or someone else, makes a better gun.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Everyone should have an HK! As for holsters, Garrett Industries makes several different Silent Thunder holsters, both IWB and OWB, to fit the P2000sk. Great gun, great holster!

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