April 14th, 2013 11:40 PM
The MOTHER of all decisions!!!!!!!!!!!, Please guys need serious advice
i am new to this forum. so new that this is my first post. as a matter of fact, i specifically joined this forum just to ask this question. i WILL NOT be very direct. this is a very complicated scenario which will require a lot of reading, patience and understanding. if you don't have neither, please do not continue reading. part of this problem is my personality type. i am a very undecided and over analytical person. specially when it comes to firearms, i do a lot of homework. i am getting tired of my headaches and thinking so much. i am not kidding. my head litterally hurts from so much thinking. probably did more thinking and research than most normal people would do.
i want to make a plan. i will explain what i mean to you guys. once i make a plan, i will just concentrate on executing it and then my headaches will be gone. enough of this and let's get to the meat and potatoes of this. after the mass shootings i have got an interest for firearms and the whole gun control discussion. i have also a growing interest in survival tactics and SHTF stuff. i understand that guns are only a part of the equation. we also need food, sustainment, training and etc. (english is not my first language, so forgive misspells)
i am going to set up some ground rules, so please follow them. i beg you to please follow them and be kind.
they are as follows
please be constructive and try your absolute best to taylor your response thinking about MY NEEDS and concerns. please try to stay away from bias and stuff that WORKS for YOU. my calibers of choice are 9 luger, .380auto and VERY possibly the 45acp. i do not shoot and don't plan to shoot any of the high pressure rounds such as .357 sig and 40sw, so please don't even mention them. i am talking mostly about HANDGUNS right now.Also let's leave the FANBOY stuff out. FANBOYS for calibers and manufactures. please try to be as unbiased as you can. i will consider other stuff(rifles and shotguns etc) in , however, i would never be able to make a decision if i was to take everything into account. Gosh, i don't even know where to start. but anyways. i am a NEW gun owner and enthusiast. please welcome me into it. i have my CPL permit and live around seattle, WA. if you would like me to continue supporting gun rights and be one more of you guys, please be courteus. thanks for reading this incredebly long intro.
after new year i have decided to purchase a firearm for home protection and personal protection. after talking to a few friends who owned firearms and being an american citizen and military vet. i decided to own a gun. by the way, i was in the USAF and didn't get to shoot very much. so, anything i learned about firearms from the military i don't remember. i don't even know why i mentioned i served. i guess maybe i will get some more warmth from all the pissed off people who had to read all this . sorry. anyways, as a consious buyer i started thinking about calibers and guns and etc. with that said, i started spending some money on gun ranges rentals and ammo. which helped me narrow down significantly my choices. remember, this was about 2 or 3 months ago, so ammo was and still is super scarce and guns were flying off the shelf. anyways, 40&W was out of the question for me, didn't like the snap. KUDOS to those who can shoot and like the 40sw. NOTHING against it. IT WAS NOT FOR ME. that is all. please let's not get side tracked by arguing and discussing about calibers here, remember that i need help. i spent a lot of money and went to different ranges in different locations to try out stuff. the gun that i shot the best at this time was a sw M&P 9c. so i was going to buy one and could not find one. i also was lucky enough to shoot the shield. which WAS also on my considerations list. i came to the conclusion that the best caliber for me at this time was the 9mm. the bullets actually went where i wanted the to go. i love the 22 lr, however, not for self defense. no need to explain that. anyhow, glocks were off my list. at the time i was thinking "everyone has glocks", 'glocks are ugly" and etc. and i didn;t even care to shoot them when i rented guns. time passed by and i grew extremely anxious. i could never get what i wanted. and it became more difficult to go to ranges because i liked going alone and i didn;t have a gun. so some of them would not let me shoot. i guess it is a liabilty thing. anyhow, time went by and the glock seed started growing on me. and all of a sudden and wanted a glock. you could say that i have been glocked. needless to say i started looking at the glock track record and was blown away. i still don't know if the glock is really all that what they say. but they have proven themselves. after that i started renting glocks and oh boy. i loved that trigger and how the frame somehow absorbed some of that recoil. after that i was pretty much hooked. so at that time. i had no gun and cash. so i went to my local gun store and put a full deposit on a glock 19. so i was happy and all and just waited and waited. 6 days passed, yes you are right, 6 days and could wait no longer. the uncertainty killed me. i called every single gun shop in the state of washington and nobody had a gen 4 glock 19. so i panicked. i started thinking that it could be months before i saw mine. unfortunately i pissed off some people and got my money back at the store i had 'paid for my glock. there i was, gunless. it got to the point where i was taking vacation days from work and skipping college classes to be at gun shops and ranges. i was sick. i spotted and glock 19, however, they wanted 800 for it. it is somewhat of a regret not buying it(you will understand why later) but i could not be knowingly raped just like that. i could no longer think about nothing else. every gun shop in the state knew me on a first name basis. i knew this had to "stop". i luckly live by a gun store. it is .1 miles from my house. after another exhausting day gunshopping and not finding anyhting i saw a interesting but somewhat expensive gun. the H&K p30. it was and interesting package, Night sights(at the time i THOUGHT it was night sights), deckocker, no safety, superior ergonomics, 9mm, and a mean look. so i ended up taking it home. i was ok for some time. but the gun addiction kicked in again. i could never quite forget about the glock. even tough the salesman said the HK was way "superior" to the glock. anyways, i started looking at laser attachments and holsters and concealability and etc. i shot it a few times and it was great. the trigger kind of dissapointed me for a $1200 gun but everything else was great. so that started a snowball of thoughts. i have a ever growing interest in survival, outdoors, camping, and etc. i have never been that way. i guess i am becoming a true american after 5 years of citizenship. i have been looking into load outs, chest rigs,bug out bags, survival guns and etc. and what i need help with is picking my chest configuration. easy enough? not for me. let's talk about handguns. after careful thinking and looking around. my militia/SHTF load out will consist of two handguns, "assault" rifle, and MAYBE a shotgun strapped to my bug out bag on my back. i say maybe because i want to minimize weight and i don't want to overkill. i know other stuff is important such as food, water and other supplies. i know there are 1 million variables and 1000 scenarios that can comprise my bug out/SHTF situation. so bear with me. the reason i am coming to you guys with this is that i want to come down with a plan to execute be done with what i am here for. enough beating around the bush. anhways, the reason i am so overthoughtfull is that i do not want to own many many guns. the reason for that is cost of maintenance, cost of shooting, ammo cost and cost of the guns themselves. i don't want to be one of those guys with 2 or 3 1911's a few pistols and on and on and on. my goal is to have no more than 4 handguns(3 pistols and internal hammer snubby 357 revolver) 1 or 2 22LR rifles, probably one shotgun, and a thompsom center dimension with different kits. that's all. i am trying really hard to control the addiction.lol. anyways. at the same time to make it more complicated, i would like to give as many manufaturers as i can my money. what i mean by that is buying no more that one gun per mnfr. trying to stay american also. and different calibers. So, my goal is to have EDC guns and home defense/open carry/outdoors camping pistol. i want these guns to cover as many roles as possible. i forgot to tell you guys, i like lasers and lights on guns. i think they are tools we should use for enhancement and not become reliant on. but most importatly, i have OCD'ish tendencies. if a gun has a rail i would like to mount something on it. if the rail is there and there is nothing on it, i get ocdish. sorry. i know it sounds ridiculous.
i almost bought a sig 232. i LOVE that gun. it is orgasmic. again, if i don't totally control myself a get ahold of this i will end up with "too many" guns. i know you can never have "too many" guns but i kind of think that way.
yesterday i found a glock 19. i bought it. that is where the title of this thread is coming from. the mother of all decisions. i know i can barely justify keeping two 9 mm guns. i can, but it is hard to. it is tearing me to shreds(even more than the loss of money) to list my p30 at gunbroker.com. however, i could end the auction and keep both guns. i just wanted to know what i could get for it. i listed it about 4 days ago. it met reserve. but even reserve is not what i want for it. i have only fired 100 rounds through it. below i will list my options and throw me you comments and opinions. thanks.
i know if i am complaining about 40 and 45's i shoudn't be talking about 357 maguns. however i woudln;t be shooting it very much. it would be last resort.
all this options include lasers and the AR or AK and the shotgun we talked about. but we are only goona address pistols for now
****Option 0.5( i say 0.5 because it would be option one had i not bought my glock 19)
Keep P30 (drop leg holster)
buy a glock 27 or 36 for the chest/back up gun for zombie apocalipse/predator in the jungle
kimber solo for edc
bodyguard 380 for deep concealent
Likes: keep my p30, have a glock in the mix, bg380 has a mean look and built in laser. 45ACP as las resort, last defense.
dislikes: NO REVOLVER, no revolver in the mix. two semi autos are more likely to fail more than the revolver. if i am crawling around on mud, i know i can count on revolver, not so much semi's.
*** Option 1
P30 ( drop leg holster)
glock 19 (chest)
Sig 232 (edc)
Kahr p380 for deep concealment
likes: keep both guns, james bond feel, less different ammo, no safety on any guns
dislikes: no revolver
*** option 2 selling p30
glock 19 (drop leg) HD ad etc
chest ( S&W 357) and edc
kimber solo (edc)
kahr p380 deep conceal
likes: revolver, 38 special option and 357 if i want it to go thorugh stuff. greater variety of caliber
dislikes: no BG380, no 45 acp. no h&K
*** Option 3
USPc 45 LEM (HD)
likes : great calibers. hk and glock together. not sure why, but like it
dislikes : no deep conceal
guys i am getting extremely tired and i can go no longer. my head hurts and i am super hungry. we can continue this later. but i can mix and macth all these guns and do whatever. this can be never ending . please throw in your comments and suggestions.
thanks a lot
April 14th, 2013 11:48 PM
Welcome to the forum. Sorry couldnt keep up with every bit of that. From all the options 1 2 3 4 etc I think I saw 357 revolver in there???? If so Ruger sp101 3in barrel. If I got lost in the fog there I apologize
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
April 14th, 2013 11:54 PM
April 15th, 2013 12:01 AM
Welcome to the forum!
One small piece of advice is to keep your posts as short as possible - most here won't read the really long stuff; not being critical, just helpful.
From what you described, you have a lot of options. The first thing to do is to shoot as many of the guns you want to consider as possible. That should help you eliminate some of them. Personally, I like sticking with one or two calibre's because it allows me to buy and store ammo efficiently. I use a Kahr PM9 for EDC because it is reliable and gives me a lot of options for concealment. I also own a Glock 17 for HD and range use. It is hard to beat the Glock for reliability and capacity. It is a fantastic gun to shoot IMHO.
The bottom line is that your first purchase should be something that you are comfortable carrying. If you won't carry it, it doesn't help. Finally, stop agonizing over the decision. All of the guns you are considering are very good and you can't really make a bad decision, other than buying something you won't use.
April 15th, 2013 12:11 AM
Howdy from Ohio...good to have you in the house! But as was mentioned above...too freaking long...my ADD went into overdrive. You might want to edit and cut to the chase. You did have pics...we do like that...so you got that going for ya.
S&W M&P Full Size 9mm - Little FoxX IWB
S&W Shield 9mm - FoxX Trapp
Ruger 10/22 Takedown
NRA Life Member/GOA Life Member
Don't let the high post count fool you...I'm just part of the welcoming committee.
April 15th, 2013 12:16 AM
Keep the G19. Sell the P30. Do nothing else until you've shot the G19 for a year. Do not purchase any more guns. Stop over-analyzing everything. Go to bed. I am serious.
And, please relax.
April 15th, 2013 12:16 AM
Buy what you like.
Get good at using it.
Nobody is going to be able to effectively answer your question. Certainly not in the manner in which you've presented it.
Go push 100 rounds down each one, and you'll know what you want as your EDC.
Everything else is jewelry.
April 15th, 2013 12:19 AM
Did not like the implied threat about being nice to keep you as a gun rights supporter. However the fact that you are the type of person to ask strangers what kind of gun is best for you is very telling. Do you do the same when you buy a car or clothes? Plus I can see how you could piss off some people as you stated because you did a good job with me. :) Welcome to the forum and thanks for joining just to ask us one question which turned into a book about all your thoughts about different guns and rambling about other things. Stay off the drugs and decide for yourself what is best for you and try not to spend more than the gun cost renting a bunch of guns to see which you like best. Your post had so many options and paths to take that I gave up. I have no time for someone who needs validation for their decisions. Keep in mind that a good shooter can shoot anything good and the great majority of people never keep their first gun so whatever you pick it will be the wrong choice. Just ask around as I did.
The worst thing about growing old is that other men no longer see you as dangerous.
April 15th, 2013 12:19 AM
I saw a Glock 19 mentioned in there somewhere. Keep it. Best handgun on the planet.
Having more than one gun in the same caliber is allowed. Get a Glock 26 9mm and you are set.
Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.
April 15th, 2013 12:25 AM
Can we wait for the movie?
The only gun that meets all of your criteria is the G19.
Or maybe one of the others.
North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor
April 15th, 2013 12:35 AM
Or at least utilize paragraphs.
Originally Posted by RickyD
Welcome to the forum. Keep calm and lift something.
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
"Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis
April 15th, 2013 12:47 AM
sorry. it was not a threat per say. i just became an NRA life member last week. i will be a gun advocate for life now on. however i was kind of afraid that people would get upset over my drama and not being very welcoming and helping out. thanks for the input. and yes. i am kind of like that buying stuff. but buying guns just broke the record.
Originally Posted by Old_Dog
April 15th, 2013 12:55 AM
First off, welcome to the forum! I daresay we don't get too many 2000-word essays as first posts. However, I did read your entire piece. It would be helpful if you could boil your questions down to some real specifics - that would help generate the kind of responses I think you are looking for.
Right now, I can tell you are 'suffering' from information overload. As evidence, I'll note that you say you don't want a "high-pressure" round, yet the 9mm you favor is indeed a high-pressure round, compared to the .45 ACP and the .38 Special. But those are details carry little weight, relative to the information you're after.
I think you're trying to narrow down to a select few firearms that will cover the greatest range of uses possible - but correct me if I'm wrong. Starting off with self-defense, the 9mm is a great choice. There is a wide range of defensive ammo available, recoil is very tolerable, ammo capacity in even the smallest guns is adequate, and under normal circumstances the cost of 9mm ammo is less than that of .40 and .45.
Next - you're agonizing over having two 9mm pistols, seemingly redundant. Stop! Nothing wrong with having a pair of guns in the same caliber. The H+K is more of a Swiss watch compared to the Glock, but if you shoot them both well there is no need to get rid of one or the other. Different guns to be sure, but common ammunition, at least. And if your bug-out plans even remotely involve a second person, well you now have a sidearm for them.
So you have a pair of full-size 9mm autos. Where do you go from there? Time to establish some priorities. Sounds like you want an "EDC" gun, so something smaller than what you have is required. I suggest for now staying away from pocket guns, but instead look at a compact 9mm such as the Solo, CW9 and Shield. That keeps your power level at the 9mm threshhold with minimal compromise in carrying. Most people don't really need a "deep concealment" piece, at least not until the other niches have been filled. Then you probably need a full-size, full-power revolver for max reliability and ability to handle a range of ammo. A K-or L-frame Smith & Wesson or Ruger GP-100 in .357 Magnum will take care of that nicely, and of course .357s will handle .38 ammo nicely for reduced recoil, blast and expense.
Investment-wise, again I would consider priorities based on likelihood of need. You've met your basic defensive needs with a pair of 9mm pistols, and you need 1 concealment and 1 range/everyday utility holster for each (plus a min of 4 magazines for each). A compact, full-caliber handgun is next - this becomes your EDC - along with concealment holster and spare mags (or speedloaders). At that point, I'd be looking at investing in long guns, before the .357 comes along. Just to spell it out, here are MY suggested firearm priorities:
full-sized defensive handgun (9mm or .38 Special min, 4" bbl min) - you've got that covered
compact defensive handgun in a serious caliber (9mm or .38 Spl, min)
multi-purpose repeating shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge - start with short barrel (18" range) for defense, add 26-28" bbl for hunting
.22 rifle as utility survival weapon (Ruger 10/22 is ideal, but lots of other choices)
.30+ cal rifle (longer-range defense, big-game hunting) - lever action or semi-auto
powerful/big-bore handguns - .357 magnum/10mm auto class
sub-caliber, "hideaway" guns - .380, .32, .25 autos
People can argue the sequence or priority, but I offer this as a thoughtful progression of firearms acquisition. Gie it some thought, and feel free to post back more questions (hopefully, in briefer posts!).
NRA Endowment Member
April 15th, 2013 12:59 AM
Welcome. As others have said, it will be helpful to offer less detail and more simply framed questions, if you want very may replies. Feel free to ask as many questions as you want, but maybe keep it to on or two, at most, per post. Things will go smoothly and you'll hae time to digest the info a chunk at a time.
My take on your situation is similar to some of the above. Shoot the practice with the Glock for awhile. Once you get a comfort level with it, THEN look around for other guns. You seem to like it anyway and it's a fine gun.
Incidentally, I also live in Lynnwood. We are probably neighbors. I offer a face to face convo over coffee, if that would help. Been doing this for a long time and used to manage a gun shop and range, so I've coached hundreds of folks through their first gun purchases. Just sayin'.....
Special Projects manager - ACLDN
American Militia - charter member, NRA Life/Benefactor member
LEAA Field Rep, Aikidoka, motorcyclist, plain speaker, straight shooter
My other nickname is "3-Knife"
April 15th, 2013 01:10 AM
Welcome to the forum.
As others have stated, I encourage you to shorten your posts and attack each issue on an individual post. This will help to get your posts read so that others will chime in to offer their thoughts.
You are not alone in the sense that you are researching this heavily. There are many on this forum who have dedicated their lives to the subject matter and can be of service to you.
At this point, I would try to slow down as best as possible and find an opportunity to try out some of the arms you are leaning towards. It is unlikely that you will try every best option right away without considerable expense, therefor pick your top 3 and rate them on how they fit or fall short of your needs/wants, then focus on them.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
― Albert Einstein
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