Weapon Failure Rates?

This is a discussion on Weapon Failure Rates? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 2 questions. Is there any empirical data that shows FTF/FTE of various pistols? The reason I ask, and I hope this does not start a ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: Weapon Failure Rates?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,225

    Weapon Failure Rates?

    2 questions.

    Is there any empirical data that shows FTF/FTE of various pistols?

    The reason I ask, and I hope this does not start a "my gun is better than your gun" debate..is
    I have noticed many people at the gun range shooting certain pistols that I would not (Carry) for personal defense.

    2) What failure rate is acceptable?

    I see people shooting various makes & models and truly notice FTF or FTE issues.

    Granted; nearly all of us use the cheapest range ammo we can find, but I can honestly say in over 3,000 rnds thru my gun,
    I've only had (One) FTF due to what was a bad primer. (Pssst) was all I heard.

    Personally, I want a gun that can shoot buffalo crap if necessary! What I mean to say, I hear people all the time claiming this gun or that gun is a little finnicky with certain types of ammo or the gun must be meticulously cleaned every time.

    Sorry, if a weapon is that intolerant, I don't want it. Nor do I want it if it FTF even one out of 500 rnds with Winchester White Box..
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    3,117
    I dont know about empirical data but I agree with you. I have sold several weapons that were finicky. I dont keep guns for range use. They are all defensive weapons if need be and will go bang when I slap the bang switch. A 1,000 dollar gun is worthless if it doesnt funtion with perfect reliability.
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
    ~Daniel Webster

    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

  4. #3
    Member Array gallardo.g23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    k-falls,oregon
    Posts
    407
    my glock 23 had a couple jams due to a bad magazine after i fixed the problem never jammed again. ive put about 2,000 rounds through it since buying it new in december. i bought a used glock 21 and sigmna 9mm and have put around 500 rounds though both since buying them 3 months ago and they have never jammed or had any problems. and my glocks will eat any thing i put in em. even that metal tulammo. same for my s&w sigma it will eat up anything. i love both of those brands and will only buy those 2 brands most likely

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    1,163
    1. None that I know of

    2. My question to you is "What is an acceptable failure rate for you ???" Everyone will have a different opinion. As with all things that are *Man-Made* they will ALL fail.

    God Bless

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NW Iowa
    Posts
    2,370
    Good luck.

    Only guns I've had that have yet to screw up are my 1911s and my 229 9mm.

    That's right. Even the vetted Glock 19 choked on a round of ball once. 238 is VERY picky, M&P 9c forgot to kick one out, and had an M&P 357 SIG that would nosedive a fresh mag of HST.

    Well, I do have a Glock 32 that has yet to hang up.

    Odd that the 102 year old design has run so well. After all, the "pros" tell a guy how unreliable it is.

    Whatever. It's my tail.
    Aceoky likes this.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by VBVAGUY View Post
    1. None that I know of

    2. My question to you is "What is an acceptable failure rate for you ???" Everyone will have a different opinion. As with all things that are *Man-Made* they will ALL fail.

    God Bless
    Great question. As I said in my OP, 3,000 rnds and no prob except for a bad primer. Even since then, and I've stopped keeping count now, not a single FTF/FTE...and yep, that was a major factor I considered when I bought my G27 Gen 4.
    Yep..It has to go bang when I squeeze the trigger. The Glocks seem to do that well time and again.
    I could give a hoot in hell for a gun that (may) be more accurate but not much in reliability and consistency.

    I'm surprised there are no studies, or at least none I know of.
    I'm an avid golfer. There are machines that test clubs over and over with consistency looking for variation.
    I would think the mfg would love to have data to support their consistency & reliability claims.
    gallardo.g23 likes this.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  8. #7
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,142
    Well, for normal citizen self-defense carry if a firearm will not function reliably with a certain configuration of hollow point ammunition and the person just does not carry the gun with that particular hollow point or bullet nose configuration then I don't see that as being any sort of real problem.

    If a handgun happens to be functionally finicky with one ammo brand and functions perfectly with another brand then just stock up on what feeds and functions perfectly and for all practical intent and purposes the problem is solved.

    I would never judge any handgun based on how it functions with Winchester White Box.

    There is a good reason why WWB is inexpensive. It's because it's cheap ammo and it is sometimes inconsistent.
    bmcgilvray, Snub44 and Eric357 like this.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post

    If a handgun happens to be functionally finicky with one ammo brand and functions perfectly with another brand then just stock up on what feeds and functions perfectly and for all practical intent and purposes the problem is solved.
    Agreed. But how many rounds would one have to fire to consider a weapon unreliable?
    For me the tolerance should be as close to zero as possible.

    One jam out of 1,000 is unacceptable; to me. So it sounds like a personal decision process?
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,703
    It's something I have never really worried about. Even a gun that runs well but bobbles every now and then is perfectly acceptable to me.
    I have found that every firearm is a law unto itself, and must be individually learned. Even a gun that may have a simple stovepipe stoppage every once and awhile is one that I will use, although I don't have any that are like that currently.

    Maybe a better question would be" how proficient is the shooter on drills to get his gun up and running again?"
    That's the only predictable variable of the equation.
    multistage, Lightweb and Snub44 like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,924
    I think you have to realize there are at least two very distinct categories of people who actually carry guns for defense:

    1st group own a gun but don't really think much beyond that. To them the .25 acp is no different than a 9mm. You won't likely see these guys actually wear their gun, if they do you will not find them with a good holster or belt. No, most often the gun is left in the car/truck or stuck in a pocket when they go to "bad parts" of town. They shoot 50 rounds annually, don't train, read books, study ballistics, and learn new tactics. Two or Three FTF's per mag seems about right to these guys. I know a lot of guys like this. Should they ever have to deploy and use their firearm (assuming they actually have it on them) it will be blind luck if they win.

    Group 2 is more like the members of this forum. We really care about our safety. Sure, we are seen as paranoid by a lot of folks, but we are also the ones our neighbors and friends will run to when the crap is hitting the proverbial fan. We'll drop $200 on a belt or holster and not even think twice, and ammo is bought by the case rather than the box. We'll spend hours watching Tnoutdoors9 channel on youtube before we decide to try a given hollow point, and then spend $100 shooting those rounds out of our carry guns to verify function. To us 1 FTE or FTF is way too many, although we know how to quickly "tap, rack, bang" and get back in the fight. We shoot weekly if we can hide it from our wives, bi-weekly at least. We can spend an hour looking through the glass cases at our local gun store (called "LGS" and we know what that means) and dream of a IDPA match we could win with that Wilson 1911. We'd rather spend a weekend at Thunder Ranch than TPC Sawgrass, and think $1000 is a heckuva deal. We'll even become amatuer lawyers, reading obscure legislation and carry laws till we know more than your average public defender. And lastly, we train till we can't get it wrong. Should we ever have to deploy our weapons in a fight, we will likely win and luck isn't really a factor.

    That is my take.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NW Iowa
    Posts
    2,370
    Yup.

    If you drive a truck, you really should know how to change a flat and jump the battery. Same principle.
    Fisher10 likes this.

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,550
    Here's a blurb from the CZ website for the P-01 (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p01/):

    Reliability: The U.S. Army "Mean Rounds Between Failure" (MRBF) requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols. During testing of the CZ P-01, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired. This is a .05% failure rate or an MRBF of 2142!


    I've keep a spread sheet of shooting since September 2010.

    For my CZ75D PCR I had some failures to feed the first couple of boxes. I examined how the bullets were catching and I dremel polished the top of the barrel opposite the feed ramp. I have since fired 1888 rounds without any failure. I carry this gun.

    For my SIG 229 in 9MM I have fired 763 rounds without failure (never had a failure in it, 763 rounds total through it).

    For may Hi Power I have fired 200 rounds without failure (never had a failure in it, 200 rounds total through it).

    That's the data for my center-fire semi's.

    For all of my .38 and .44 revolvers, over the last three years 5,922 rounds. There have been three failures - one was due to the leaf spring in a use revolver I purchased being loose (aka a "poor man's trigger job"); one was due to a very weak after market Wolff leaf spring that I replaced with the factory leaf spring; and one was in used revolver I purchased that was hadn't been oiled since the Regan administration. These were all easy fixes and I'd trust them all with my life.

    If a revolver fails, I just pull the trigger again.

    If a semi fails, I need to clear it. But absent some catastrophic failure you can clear a jam pretty quick if you practice. Just take some dummy rounds and an empty casings and make some stovepipes and practice clearing them.
    Phaedrus likes this.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  14. #13
    Member Array MrsHB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    Personally, I want a gun that can shoot buffalo crap if necessary!
    Me too! This is the beauty of revolvers. I have thousands of rounds through two different all-steel S&W revolvers, and never a single hiccup. They will take all kinds of abuse and it doesn't matter how bad your grip is...as long as you can pull the trigger, it will say "bang". Higher capacity is great, but there's a lot to be said for the old "5 FOR SURE".

    That being said, I can't always conceal a revolver, and this is where the super small sub-compact semis come in handy. I'm a very imperfect shooter, so if I can put hundreds of rounds through this type of gun without an FTE, I'm okay with that, if the gun otherwise shoots well. I don't expect thousands of flawless rounds from this type of gun.
    "...people who carry a gun understand that they are arming themselves against a very unlikely event... People who arm themselves are not confused about the odds. They are concerned about the stakes. -Kathy Jackson
    NRA Life Member

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,627
    I have only bought one gun in recent years that had an unacceptable failure rate, a DB 380. I experienced light strikes, FTE and then a broken trigger on the first range trip. Called DB and got rash of garbage about the cheap ammo i was using, even though he never asked what ammo i was firing, from there customer service rep..the gun was returned for repair. Several weeks later I got the gun back and took a trip to the range, trigger was fine but experienced one light strike and two FTE on the first magazine. Traded the gun at the very next gun show.
    US Army 1953-1977

    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    oshkosh wisconsin
    Posts
    959
    I would like to see some empirical data but I doubt it exists.
    My metal band: Born under Sirius

    Glock 23, mic holster, clipdraw, abdominal carry.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

failure rate of revolvers

,

gun failure rate

,

handgun failure rates

,
handgun manufacturers fail rate
,

normal failure rate for handgun

,
normal ftf rate
,
paintball gun failure rates
,
pistol failure ratw
,
pistol misfire rate
,
weapons failure rate statistics
,
what rate does weapons fail
,

will one box of tulammo destroy my bersa 380

Click on a term to search for related topics.