Small .22's - a first and last line of defense?
This is a discussion on Small .22's - a first and last line of defense? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm getting the itch to buy a gun again and it got me thinking about the role of extremely small .22 caliber revolvers (think North ...
April 30th, 2013 11:27 PM
Small .22's - a first and last line of defense?
I'm getting the itch to buy a gun again and it got me thinking about the role of extremely small .22 caliber revolvers (think North American Arms) as carry pieces. Before anyone jumps up and down about the effectiveness of the .22 in a tiny handgun, let me explain my angle:
First off it wouldn't be the only gun I would carry. It would be a precursor or backup to my main piece.
Here's what I figure. Something like a NAA revolver can fit most coat pockets easily and can be aimed without drawing any attention unlike bigger guns. Heck you can walk around all day with your hand wrapped around the tiny gun without getting cramps. Instead of trying to position a larger .38 special snubby which can draw attention, point the little .22 at the perp and pepper him with the tiny rounds. He'd never see it coming.
Then when he's writhing in pain and disoriented, go to your normal draw with your main carry gun and finish the job of stopping him in his tracks.
And in desperation, assuming you're are already engaged with your main piece and it jams or runs out, pull out the .22 and keep in the fight. The typical BUG role.
First and last lines of defense. The .22 itself is pretty light in the stopping department but paired with a good main gun, it can be a distinct advantage.
Any thoughts on this? And do any of you employ this carry method?
April 30th, 2013 11:27 PM
May 1st, 2013 12:36 AM
I carry one. Not sure I agree with the whole peppering strategy thing, but yes, they are small. And.....beats the heck out of a rock. I don't look at it like a "real" gun, but kinda like a pocket knife. Hard to manipulate, so I figure I have maybe 1 or 2 shots, and only at point blank range. I prefer a 38 or 9mm, but like I said, it's so small you can carry often when the inconvenience overcomes the desire to be armed with a larger weapon.
May 1st, 2013 12:54 AM
It beats not being able to carry anything and I can see it being very dangerous in very close proximity (pressing the tiny barrel against somebody's temple and shooting two rounds). At least it will buy you some time to get the hell out of there, stop an attack or get to a bigger firearm.
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]
May 1st, 2013 01:08 AM
I have been carrying a TCP .380. It fits perfectly in the pocket as well ahs has a larger round than the .22. Ruger, Kel-Tek and S&W make some really nice .380ACP pistols. Check them out and see how small they are. I did like the MAA .22WMR though, but I did not like how it is to reload that cylinder.
"The key to freedom is the ability to defend yourself"
May 1st, 2013 01:16 AM
The following is only one opinion.
"Then when he's writhing in pain and disoriented, go to your normal draw with your main carry gun and finish the job of stopping him in his tracks."
If he's busy "writhing in pain and disoriented" from .22 bullet strikes and you then draw your larger and more effective primary carry handgun with a view to finishing him off, you're taken yourself right out of the realm of a "righteous" self-defense action with all the moral and legal implications that accompany it. That's a lot of baggage you don't need.
Let's take a look at this scenario. You've quite likely bought yourself some room to maneuver if "...he's writhing in pain and disoriented." You should be putting some distance/barrier between you and your assailant instead of making a belated attempt to "..finish the job of stopping him in his tracks," something you've already failed to do with the runt .22, for he's not "stopped in his tracks" if he still needs to be plugged with the main gun.
I'm able to acquire any handgun I want for concealed carry purposes. I've long kept available the kinds of handguns I particularly want for personal self-defense. No .22 caliber models of any size or description fit my purposes when it comes to concealed carry. My main carry gun is the one I will draw first rather than any tiny, low-powered, ill-handling .22.
"Instead of trying to position a larger .38 special snubby which can draw attention...point the little .22 at the perp and pepper him with the tiny rounds."
Drawing attention will be the least of my worries if the situation has deteriorated to the point that the .38 has to come out and it can "pepper" more effectively than can the .22.
A small .22 pistol of any sort, either as a main carry or as a "skirmish piece" to be pulled ahead of the more effective center fire handgun, is a tactical dead-end and no advantage at all. Concentrate on providing a decent gun for gun-fighting and put it to use if the need arises. Leave the .22s for fun and practice. These watch-fob .22 single-action revolvers are showing up in a couple of threads of late. As a good luck talisman to ward off evil, such a revolver is great. As a serious gun-fighting choice it just ain't fittin'!
It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'.avi - YouTube
Listen to Mammy. She'll tell ya'.
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
May 1st, 2013 01:18 AM
right now my main carry is in the shop, so ive been carrying my pt22 pistol. and yeah its small, and yeah its a .22.... but hay id rather have a .22 in my pocket then a 45 at home!
May 1st, 2013 01:29 AM
Shoot them twice as many times as you would with a .44 - same thing.
May 1st, 2013 07:06 AM
Makes perfect sense. I began thinking the same thing after I posted the thread. Good points.
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray
May 1st, 2013 07:08 AM
They are small and better than nothing, but ultimately there are a lot better choices.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
May 1st, 2013 07:24 AM
The problem I see with the tiny NAA revolvers is that they are single action, therefore fairly slow to shoot. During the only incident I'm aware of that one was used, the gun actually fell apart. Not my idea of reliability. I like little, totally concealed guns, they serve a purpose, just not that particular type.
May 1st, 2013 07:51 AM
That "precursor" argument, IMO, is a precursor to disaster. If a situation isn't deadly in its severity, then we have no business drawing a deadly weapon. And if the goal is to stop the violence as soon as possible, why would a person want to have anything less than the best defense he's got at the moment, one's best shot at surviving the violence?
To say nothing of the potential legal tangle that could be opened up, with that angle. "DA: Why did you pull that .22 on Mr. X?" "Defendant: Because I didn't feel the situation warranted my .45." Are you sure you'd want to hand the DA and Grand Jury a line of reasoning so obvious (even though, obviously, nobody in his right mind would want to say any such thing)?
For me: If faced with deadly violence, I'm seeking to stop it as effectively and expeditiously as I can. For my money, the odds don't favor the least-capable, least-effective means at my disposal, when a situation has gone so far as to threaten my very life or the lives of my loved ones.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
May 1st, 2013 07:56 AM
If you have to pull your firearm, you shouldn't worry about "drawing attention" to yourself because that's going to happen anyway. If the BG is high on PCP or some stimulant, the .22 isn't going to do much to him, you need something bigger that you can end the situation faster with.
May 1st, 2013 08:26 AM
Here's how I look at it in the scenario you described. You've fired 5 to 7 rounds of 22LR. BG is on ground in pain squirming around. He seems to no longer be a threat to the OP. (If I had one) I would be calling 911 in a New York minute. Holding him at bay with the second gun while watching him like a hawk. When LE arrives follow their commands precisely. Good Luck.
I carry a 1911 in 380 as my main. Sometimes I carry my Beretta 7+1 as a bug. If it were me I would deploy 380 1st then 22. At this stage in my life I need/require a lighter carry gun. I like the Ruger LCR w/Laser. It fits my hands well, the point shoot aspect is natural and it has the laser is the biggest draw for me. The out the door price w/1 box of 50R is $750. Unfortunately it may as well be 5 grand. I flat can't afford it. Looks like I'll be packing the 1911 for awhile longer. Hope this helps.
Firing a suppressed is on my Bucket List.
John 3:16 Gettin' Old ain't for Sissies.
America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.
May 1st, 2013 03:50 PM
I have a .22 that I stick in my pocket (in a holster) sometimes. I wouldn't discourage someone from carrying one, I just might recomend that they also have something bigger.
But I can put 10 rounds center mass a lot faster than with my .40.
May 1st, 2013 04:51 PM
They now have one of these mini revolvers with a conventional swing-out cylinder. Seems like a fun, cool little piece...but...with the availability of small, light, flat .380 autos out there, I just don't see the point. Only exception would be for those who are recoil sensitive.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger LCP (2), LCR, Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
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