Kel Tec PMR-30

This is a discussion on Kel Tec PMR-30 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is just extrapolating from the doctrines that are prevalent among experts and novices, and that get repeated here often. "What's important is putting as ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Kel Tec PMR-30

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927

    Kel Tec PMR-30

    This is just extrapolating from the doctrines that are prevalent among experts and novices, and that get repeated here often.

    "What's important is putting as many accurately fired rounds on the center of mass as quickly as possible," or something to that effect... Apparently I'm the only person whose accuracy suffers greatly when rapid firing, and for whom "accurate" and "rapid fire" are mutually exclusive unless at very close ranges... I could certainly be better at it than I am, but after all these years it would almost have to become more than my avocation.

    Again, I'm not trying to start a fight or disagreeing with anyone, but if that is the veritas probatae of a defensive pistol situation, then it stands to reason that the PMR-30 may be the ultimate CCW pistol...

    The Kel Tec PMR-30 is a full frame automatic pistol in .22, but chambers WMR, which is about 1,800 FPS at the muzzle of a pistol and with a 30gr bullet delivers more than 300 foot pounds of energy. I think that's what you're left to work with since it is nearly impossible to reload rim-fire and amp that bullet up a ways. That isn't a whole lot less than some 9mm cartridges moving at a little over half the velocity, and the recoil is much lighter allowing for the re-acquire and follow up shots to be even more accurate. Still inferior to the 9mm in most respects.... Until we get to the magazines... It sports staggered, 30 round, rimfire magazines in WMR. which is almost full double most modern hi-cap mags, and would seem to deliver a significant advantage even though the projectile has slightly less energy. Less than a 9mm, but delivering that all important volume of fire on the target. In terms of penetration, I think the velocity speaks for itself, and at self defense ranges I would certainly not bet my sternum against it, especially when being hit several times per second. Rapid fire would almost become a different thing as it went on for several more seconds without reloading than anyone would have the right to expect.

    I don't have this pistol or any pistol that eats .22 WMR; long, evil looking little buggers. My pistols in .22 would choke on these. I've shot them from rifles only, where their ballistics would be even more like a 9mm at close range.

    This is for discussion purposes only, and based on the conventional wisdom I began with. Whadaya think?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,420
    Reliability. It doesn't matter how many rounds that you have in the magazine when it jams or doesn't fire due to it being a rimfire.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    My .22s rarely jam. If you pay for the Hornady ammo I use in the example there is a very low chance of a dud. You have to also remember that these really are magnum rounds, and I would think they would cycle better than a long rifle. I can't speak for the Kel Tec, but just assume it is a .22 WMR pistol with a 30 round magazine made by Glock. It the pistol has a jamming problem and is unreliable it doesn't much matter what caliber it is, and I only pick this because it was the first one I found. There are probably others, or maybe not.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,335
    Notice that no one else makes a product like this except Kel Tec. Whec is right, all that capacity sounds great until the damn thing jams on ya. After my experience with a Kel Tec PF9 I would never trust one to save my life. Nor would I want any Kel Tec even as a range toy. Let Kel Tec invent the concept, then let someone like Ruger innovate upon the idea and actually make it reliable.

    Kel Tecs look and feel like they were made in a dimly lit Chinese garage.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    Ok, bad choice (only choice? in pistol). What about the rest of it?

    You both are sort of trying not to answer my premise by pinging on what I consider to be irrelevant to this hypothetical. Sure, if it's a piece of junk that jams it could be the size of a .380, recoilless, and have 30 .500 magnums in the magazine and still be a piece of junk. If it's unreliable it can't be depended upon by definition. I've never had a Kel Tec. I just know they're cheap, but like you said, if this premise is true, then maybe someone else WILL make a reliable version of it. Lets put all that aside for a moment.

    Does this or does it not make sense to you if you are an adherent to the doctrine in the OP?

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,420
    I'm not bashing Keltec as much (I'm one of the lucky ones who has a PF9 that runs like a sewing machine, but even so there are so many better quality guns to be carried).

    I'm referring the the logistics of stacking rimfires. A single-stack will feed okay with the general cut-off being at about 10 rounds. Double-stacking them is quite a challenge and why I think a lot of manufacturers have not attempted it. Keltec are innovators, and I applaud them for that. Do some of your own research on the reliability of the PMR-30 and draw your own conclusions. I don't own one, so I won't bash it.

    In fact, I'd love to own one, but I wouldn't carry it for self defense.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    Well, from a little quick research it appears that these guys: https://www.volquartsen.com/ take them into their custom shop and make them into very reliable shooters. Who knows how much that costs on top of the $850 you can buy one for immediately on line...that isn't the point. Many people put $1,500 into their carry pistol, and some (*Wilson*) will put $6,000.

    So, lets now assume that you have a Volquartsen Custom PMR-30 with everything polished, tweaked and customed out for perfect reliability (if there was such a thing) that never jams and feeds like a dream... Pro-ceed.

    Why would this not be the ultimate CCW pistol?
    Last edited by Jaeger; June 26th, 2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Correction

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    It seems that the .30 WMR is a big problem feeding in any automatic because of the extreme pressures.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    Why would this not be the ultimate CCW pistol?
    Because everybody has a different definition of what a perfect carry gun is for them. For me it is a 5 shot LCR. For others it may be a Desert Eagle, full size 1911, Derringer etc.

    There is no such thing as a perfect caliber, holster/carry setup, gun etc. Just make sure you carry a reliable gun you can make good shots with.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    I'm with you 100% rammerjammer, but the premise in the OP gets repeated constantly, and I would like to hear why this isn't the ultimate CCW for those who keep repeating it, because it seems perfectly suited for it.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,335
    Because it wouldn't fit in my pocket. That's my answer. I don't need or want 30 rounds on my person.

    I don't know if I'm reading the OP wrong or just missing the overall question. I think it is something about rapid fire shots and accuracy. I'm more concerned about accuracy and concealability in a CCW gun.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    1,927
    I agree. I want to hear what the rapid, volume of fire people say.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,627
    George Kelgren is the owner, last I heard, of Kel-Tec and was the designer and producer of the Grendel P30, P10 and P12. The PMR30 is an improved version of the P30 and the P10 and P12 are the forerunners of the "P" series Kel Tecs. I have owned a Grendel P30 and it was pretty finicky with some ammo and was prone to jamming. My son has a PMR30, had a few jams in the first few hundred rounds and also found by only loading 25 rounds in the mag cleard the feed problems, and it has been flawless since. He bought the gun at a LGS NIB for $329 when they first hit the street. Would I pay $800 for one? No.
    US Army 1953-1977

    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,545
    My brother in law has one of these pistols initially he was very pleased with it. He never complained of jamming but said the barrel heated very rapidly effecting accuracy. I would also only imagine the glee with which an attorney would pursue a case where the newly minted "victim" had been shot 30 times.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tdave View Post
    My brother in law has one of these pistols initially he was very pleased with it. He never complained of jamming but said the barrel heated very rapidly effecting accuracy. I would also only imagine the glee with which an attorney would pursue a case where the newly minted "victim" had been shot 30 times.
    Why, LEO's do it often.
    hek1620 likes this.
    US Army 1953-1977

    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

buy kel tec pmr 30 in st george, utah
,
can kel tec make the pmr 30 work properly in 3 or 4 weeks
,

kel tec pmr 30

,
kel tec pmr 30 a good carry gun?
,
kel tec pmr 30 modifications
,
kel tec pmr 30 shortage
,

kel-tec pmr-30 jamming

,

keltec pmr30 for ccw

,

pmr 30 concealed carry

,
pmr 30 jams
,
why are there pmr 30 shortages 2013
,
why cant you fire armscor 22 wmr ammo in kel-tec pmr30
Click on a term to search for related topics.