Why cocked and locked.

This is a discussion on Why cocked and locked. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Keep in mind with most newer 1911's "cocked and locked" in a holster with thumb snap: I carry a 1911. I know quite a few ...

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Thread: Why cocked and locked.

  1. #16
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
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    Keep in mind with most newer 1911's "cocked and locked" in a holster with thumb snap:
    I carry a 1911. I know quite a few folks who also carry a 1911. Not one of us uses a holster with a thumb strap. YMMV.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    also dont forget most new 1911s dont have a half cock anymore or captive half cock i should say
    hmmm, didn't know that. So if a 1911 doesn't have a firing pin safety, would it still have a captive half-cock then? Did they do away with the half cock when firing pin safeties became popular?

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array razorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911 View Post
    I carry a 1911. I know quite a few folks who also carry a 1911. Not one of us uses a holster with a thumb strap. YMMV.
    I hate thumbstaps. When you need your gun, you needed it 5 seconds ago. A long time ago, I was carrying my 1911 in a Galco holster with a thumb strap. I took a rug cutter to the stap and removed it.

    Also, the 1911 has three safties, more than any revolver. The backstrap safety, the thumb safety, and the operation of the two. If you handle your 1911 like a professional, it's just as safe as a glock, xd, revolver, muzzle loader, or a 40 watt range plasma rifle. You keep one in the camber to make the gun work properly. Also, you keep one in the camber so you can use the gun for something other than a threatening pointing device.

    Sorry, I'm really cynical at the moment. This isn't directed at anyone.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    hmmm, didn't know that. So if a 1911 doesn't have a firing pin safety, would it still have a captive half-cock then? Did they do away with the half cock when firing pin safeties became popular?
    ]


    Most likely not.

    Springfield doesn't use a captive notch and they don't use a firing pin safety just a Ti firing pin and heavier spring



    they call it a firing pin safety but noting truly holds the pin back except the firing pin spring like in the original 1911 design

  6. #20
    Member Array jbuck's Avatar
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    "Going off half cocked" both people and guns. Cocked and locked, the only way to safely carry unless you want a paper weight.

    JBuck

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    To minimize the possibility of fumbling to put my 1911's thumb safety into the "Fire" selection, each and every time I lower my cocked 1911, I place ths safety "on" and as I raise it I place the safety to "Fire." Developing Muscle and technique Memory.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell

  8. #22
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    You Carry a 1911 Cocked & Locked?...

    Why yes I do...

    Isn't that very dangerous?

    Why, yes it is!...
    I wouldn't carry it, if it wasn't!

    Stay safe!

    ret
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; December 2nd, 2006 at 11:06 AM.
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  9. #23
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    Some 1911 Tidbits

    Actually, whatever style hammer you install on your 1911 will determine if it has a captive half cock notch or not.

    With a Captive Half Cock the trigger cannot be pulled while the hammer is at half~cock.

    A non captive half~cock notch locates the hammer face closer to the firing pin.
    The trigger CAN be pulled with sear caught by a non~captive half~cock but there is not enough energy transfer from the hammer to the floating firing pin to detonate a chambered round. The hammer basically just lowers itself onto the firing pin.

    When the thumb safety is ON the hammer is physically blocked from moving forward.

    When the grip safety is not depressed the trigger is physically blocked from moving rearward.

    It is (of course) very possible to safely lower the hammer down to the half-cock notch but, I see no real reason to do it.

    In order for the 1911 to fire with a blow to rear of the hammer you would actually have to hit the hammer hard enough to fracture/shatter the sear.
    That is not a very easy thing to do.

    On a Series 80 the firing pin is always blocked unless the trigger is pulled.
    The act of moving the trigger rearward is what "levers up" the firing pin block.
    So even if the thumb safety was in the Off position - if the pistol was dropped and hit concrete hard enough to shatter the sear (or the hammer notch) then the firing pin would still be physically blocked from moving forward when struck by the hammer.

    In Short: The 1911 is an incredibly SAFE pistol design though it looks unsafe at Cocked And Locked.

    It should be noted that the above applies to a standard factory set pistol.
    Over lightening the trigger pull by altering the hammer notch depths and other various custom alterations can possibly affect the overall safety of the pistol.
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  10. #24
    Member Array ka0azs's Avatar
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    I carry a Browning Hi-Power but still the same answer: It's designed to be carried that way, Condition One is the only rational way to carry a Single Action Auto for duty or CCW use.

    As for the half cock, I use the one on my BHP as follows for ready storage (i.e. not carrying, but not fully secured): empty chamber, half cock, safety on, full magazine. The half cock is required to engage the safety, in this condition I can drop the safety and rack the slide to get into operation quickly, but some one unfamiliar with it would probably take awhile,
    Randy
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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    For the squeamish that can't stand the idea of "cocked and locked" there is also the option of installing the Cylinder and Slide S.F.S. (Safety Fast Shooting System). You chamber a round, put the thumb safety into "Safe", then manually push the hammer down. When you need to fire, just thumb the safety "off" and the hammer springs back into the cocked position. You are still carrying a "cocked and locked" pistol but it just doesn't look like it. It just requires that you remember to push the hammer down after putting the gun into "Safe", firing is just like a normal 1911. It doesn't affect the trigger at all.

    I don't have any 1911s that have it installed, but I have fired a couple and, with the exception of the extra step, they operate normally.

    Just an option for the faint at heart. Some BHPs come (or came) from the factory with the S.F.S. installed.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    But why bother with that at all? I don't want any manual safety getting in the way, and if I'm going to have the manual safety, I want something for it like the first shot being a single action shot.

  13. #27
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p8riot View Post
    For the squeamish that can't stand the idea of "cocked and locked" there is also the option of ...
    Carrying something else.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array p8riot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean View Post
    But why bother with that at all? I don't want any manual safety getting in the way, and if I'm going to have the manual safety, I want something for it like the first shot being a single action shot.
    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I like the way my 1911s operate, just the way JMB designed them. Just offering an option

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickpocket View Post
    Carrying something else.
    Yep
    "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

    The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

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