September 27th, 2013 02:09 PM
I wonder how many of you carry a Kahr pistol, and which one?
Holsters and carry loads for them as well?
I'm not carrying my LCR .357 much anymore, and am thinking of a lighter
CW9, or even bumping up to a CW45, of which I still have few boxes of ammo for
and can find .45 ACP most anywhere in town.
Not so with the spotty .38/357 ammo.
A good friend suggested the P series in .45 and 9mm, but I'd like to be able to shoot
lead once I get into reloading again.
I've read where the Kahr 9mms have less recoil than most comparable guns.
What's recoil like from the 45?
I'll be selling my LCR .357 locally here in the Lewis-Clark valley to WA residents.
My other options would be Glock 26 or 36, maybe even G30S, but think the
Kahrs will be slimmer.
No Springfield XDs for me, even though they would be lighter than my RAMI or KLCR.
Let's see those Kahrs!
September 27th, 2013 02:29 PM
I have had several Kahr and do not own any at this time because I am a senior citizen with hand problems and the Kahr's slides are difficult to rack due to heavy springs. In fact, Kahr states in their manual that you should rack the first round into the chamber by locking the slide back and then using the slide release. The reason for that is that the slide is very unforgiving if you ride it even a little bit when releasing it. It can be done but not something I would want to worry about if I needed to do it in an emergency.
Then there is the recommended 200 rounds of practice ammo and 100 rounds of carry ammo, to break the gun in, according to Kahr. I have had 5 Kahr's and would agree with them. Every one jammed at least once the first 100 rounds but some say they do not. Kahrs have a long double action trigger that is not heavy and very smooth. None of mine have been ammo fussy but I use Gold Dots and DPX for carry and WWB and Remington for practice. I would stay away from the .45. They recoil sufficiently to slow down your subsequent shots and are not fun to shoot.
I sold off all of mine because I prefer all metal 1911 style guns. The only gun I own that is polymer and has no hammer is my Glock 19. I made an exception because I think the 19 is the best of the polymer double stacks. Big enough for home defense and small enough to carry concealed.
As far as recommendations I would recommend the PM9/CM9 or P9/CW9. Quite frankly the CM9 an CW9 give you great value for your money and that is the way I would go. I had the PM9 and then the CM9. No difference as far as I was concerned other than cosmetic, only one supplied magazine and a non match grade barrel, which frankly is not needed in a self defense gun but sounds great in an ad. The CM9 was my easiest to conceal 9mm pocket gun. Only a two finger grip but still easy to shoot. The P9 that I owned, was a perfect belt gun. Allows you a full grip on the gun and soft shooter. Stay away from the CM40 because there is too much recoil in a gun so small. A lot of professionals, Mas Ayoob included, do not recommend that gun. It is the Kahr I most often see in the used gun section of my gun store. The 9mm's I had to buy online.
The .45s are also a little too small for the caliber. Sure you can shoot them but not rapidly with accuracy. They also are no fun to shoot after a while. I hope I have provided you with enough information.
The worst thing about growing old is that other men no longer see you as dangerous.
September 27th, 2013 02:50 PM
I've purchased eight Kahrs over the years. One was a P45 bought with the intent of making it my CCW. I had a Galco Concealed carry holster for it. I never did carry that gun as I ended up not liking it as much as I thought. It was hard for me to shoot with any speed as the recoil, especially +P rounds, broke my grip apart.
I also have a couple polymer 9mms which I can shoot effectively. My favorite is the TP9, but the P9 is a nice shooter too. In such a light gun, the 9mm was a better fit than the .45, for me.
If I carried a Kahr it would likely be my K9, as it has a laser grip and a factory "elite" trigger. I have a Mitch Rosen Premier for The K9, and in fact all my 9mm Kahrs fit that same holster. The K9 has never replaced the HK I do carry and have for about 7 years, but I count it as another very viable CCW.
September 27th, 2013 03:03 PM
I own a PM9. It had some light primer strikes and FTF at first, but I think my gunsmith has fixed it. However, that little doubt remains, and I rarely carry it. It's my basement gun. In addition, the form factor is not as small as my S&W M37, a gun I completely trust, and usually just drop into my pocket where it completely disappears.
Last edited by sideKahr; September 27th, 2013 at 03:05 PM.
Reason: replace a with I
It isnít the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.
September 27th, 2013 03:24 PM
If you are willing to consider another small 9mm, consider the Sig P938. With the extended grip you can get your whole hand on it and it has a manual safety and SA trigger. A poster above verified my experience with a Kahr in .45 and my preference for the P9 or CW9. I currently carry the P938 in my pocket or IWB. It is a good shooter and the recoil is not bad at all. However, I am used to a 1911 type gun, having used one in combat and competition. I always seem to own one. Call me old fashioned but to me, a safety prevents you from pulling the trigger when you do not intend to. Putting safeties on a trigger is like making a car that has the ignition and gear selector on the accelerator pedal and they are all activated by pressing the gas pedal. :)
The worst thing about growing old is that other men no longer see you as dangerous.
September 27th, 2013 03:39 PM
I own 2 Kahrs, a K40 bought used from a friend and a CW9. The CW9 gets considerable use as the around-the-house, quick trip to the store, and daytime dog-walking gun. It's carried in Wild Bill's paddle holster.
I'm a senior citizen as well but the .40 and 9mm slides pose no problem whatsoever for me. However, I recall reading a Gun tests review of the CW45 and they remarked that the slide was quite stiff.
I confess I missed the memo about any rigorous break-in period for the CW9, as my new gun familiarization protocol normally extends past several boxes of ammo, including the carry loads. With standard 9mm ammo, the CW9 is a pussycat to shoot, in spite of its light weight. For me, the gun is a natural pointer and as accurate as I need it to be (note: 115 gr Win generic ball threw a "pattern" instead of a group; +P carry ammo that I was burning up gave the tight groups I expected). With +P ammo, the recoil is snappy, but nowhere near as fatiguing as +P .38s in a 15-oz snub.
Others here will relate tales of woe with the CW9, but mine is probably approaching the 2000-round mark without a single hiccup, bobble, misfeed or any other glitch. Another oft-repeated piece of advice is to always use the slide release to chamber the first round; I have not found that to be necessary whatsoever. My standard practice with any automatic is to "slingshot" the slide, but regardless of the gun the slide goes fully to the end of its rearward travel before it's released. This works for me, and a quick tally suggests I have at least 9 brands of automatics on hand, but as always, YMMV.
All in all, I think the CW9 is a dandy little gun that's compact, light and reliable.
NRA Endowment Member
September 27th, 2013 03:46 PM
I have the CW9, it is a great little gun. I fell in love with the gun the first time I picked it up, it fits in my hands great, and with the CW series I can get all three fingers on the grip. The only problem I have had is a couple times the slide has not locked after the last round was shot. I believe this was because of my grip and hitting the slide release with my thumb.
It took me about 300 rounds to get my grip and sights all working together. Now I can shoot 2 inch groups at 10 yards.
September 27th, 2013 03:52 PM
The first, and only kahr I ever bought, I bought new. A PM40, and it was by far the worst gun I ever owned. Jams right and left. When going thru Fighting Pistol, I mentioned that I had that gun, but was going to sell it as it jammed so much. The instructor told hem he had the same gun, and was selling his soon for the same reason.
That being said, reading what everyone has had to say about kahrs, over a period of time, it seems like you either get a great one out of the box, or you end up with what I did; problems.
I traded mine off on a kayak. I got the better end of that trade, lol.
September 27th, 2013 04:38 PM
OP - Are you saying you want a Kahr because your LCR is too heavy? If so, I do not think any Kahr is lighter in weight.
My current PM9 is my third one, and my fourth Kahr. Let's just say my .38 LCR is on my hip as I type this, and my PM9 is in the safe.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
September 27th, 2013 05:41 PM
I am the proud owner of 2 Kahr pistols, both .40s: the K40 Covert and the PM40.
Our issue caliber at work (LEO) is .40 and I wanted a small backup/off-duty piece that used the same caliber. First I found a K40 Covert for sale. It had been bought new by a cop in another city who fired two mags through it, and traded it.
The sights on it are virtually identical to those on my duty SIG P226 and it is very accurate. I don't mean "for a pocket gun" I mean right up there with most service pistols, assuming you can hold onto it, LOL.
It has the all steel frame of the K series and features the slightly longer slide and barrel of the K40 mounted on the micro compact MK frame. To be honest it feels odd with the shorter 5-round mags in place, so when I carry it I tend to carry it with the longer 6-round mag. That mag is designed to be used in the smaller pistols as it has a bumper that fills in the gap between floorplate and bottom of the grip.
That all steel frame proved heavy all out of proportion to size. Recoil was noticeable, but not painful (I have a bit of arthritis in my hands and frequently have stove up [or worse ... I'm very clumsy, LOL] fingers and it's never "hurt" to shoot it). Like Old_Dog said, though, the slides have very strong springs and for that reason Kahr recommends loading as he indicated. It was, however, uncomfortable in an ankle rig and a bit too much for good pocket carry. So I tried again.
Next I found a PM40. A deputy had bought it new, put only TWO ROUNDS through it (heh, ... quitter) and sold it. It is VERY light and VERY comfortable to carry. It's not the most comfortable gun to hold and a lot of folks have commented on that. But no matter how good it feels in your hand, I bought it as a pistol I could have on me nearly all the time, a "nearly always gun"(like my former Kel-Tec P3AT and now Beretta Jetfire was/now serves as an "always" gun). The PM frame is as small as the metal MK frame so it uses the same 5-round and 6-round mags as it's heavier brother.
It came with the optional Express Sights by Trijicon (HUGE front dot and a shallow, wide rear sight in lieu of the standard "V"). They are VERY fast on target but are not bulls-eye sights. Of course, in a lethal confrontation you are looking at getting good hits fast, and won't have perfect, pick-the-button-to-hit sight pictures anyway. You CAN shoot very accurately with it, but beyond about 50 feet that sight is bigger than an 8" headplate. Style of sights are up to you but these work very well for my needs.
Recoil ... wow. Everyone whose been at our range with me has either said some version of "wow" upon shooting it or passed on the chance. I won't say it's painful, per se, but it is definitely not comfortable. Still, back when our OD/BUG course was 25 rounds including two strings of 5-rapid, from-the-hip at 1 yard as fast as you could draw and crank 'em off, I wasn't crippled by the blast (the targets tore up from muzzle blast, though, LOL). And I was in a ballistics class hosted by the FBI a while back and now know for a fact that the .40 Federal HST rounds in it will penetrate and expand virtually identically to those fired from a full sized service weapon, so that's reassuring. I can nearly always tuck it in the waistband under just a t-shirt in it's .08 Kydex holster and no one knows it's there.
I have also shot the PM9. I actually recommend the PM9 to most folks. Same small size, one extra round, and a lot less recoil (cheaper practice ammo too, where available). I could spend an afternoon having fun with a couple boxed of 9x19 and the PM9. I don't like going through one box with the PM40. Haven't shot the PM45, but I can't see it being much more pleasant.
As to holsters, I have a standard, off-the shelf Uncle Mike's pocket holster I use for the PM40 (in my right-side front pocket in my uniform pants right now). I also made a simple IWB holster out of Kydex for it. I have a belt-clip leather IWB from Don Hume for my PM40 and a belt-loop IWB from Don Hume for the K40 Covert. I have been known to have the K40 on my waist and the PM40 in the opposite pocket (FWIW, I carry two PPKs like that too when I want to carry "fancy" ).
September 27th, 2013 05:56 PM
A friend of mine carries the PM9 and loves it. I'm not a huge fan of Kahr's as their reputation over the years has been questionable. Plus the whole Moonie thing.
I'd keep the LCR. You'll miss it.
September 27th, 2013 07:47 PM
I bought a Kahr K-9 new in around 1998 and it's the only thing I've carried since I got my concealed carry license. It has never had a failure to feed, fire, or eject. In fact, I can't even get the thing to fail, even holding it weak-handed and loosely. It never needed this new 200-round break-in period thing, or I would not continue to own it. Most of the problems I read about from Kahrs seem to be related to the polymer frame models, not the steel ones.
There's nothing I can tell you about the Moonies - if that's important to you, then try something else.
As for holsters, I only have the one - an older Alessi inside the waistband model. It has a sweatshield to keep the frame away from my skin, and has held up very well. Better than I've held up, FWIW, so I've ordered an OWB pancake from HBE that should be here in a week or so.
September 27th, 2013 09:14 PM
I traded my Glock 26 for a Kahr MK9 carried it a little in the year I owned it, shot allright, trigger way heavy & the magazines feed lips always cut my fingers when I loaded them & top round OR two would always pop out if I pocket carried them, & would most of the time in a magazine holder! The Kahr was not anywhere as reliable as the Glock 26 I traded it for.
So I tried to get even. I traded my MK9 for a K9. Man did that K9 fit my hand! A natural pointer & like the MK9 all stainless steel, but still lightweight & very thin. Carried like a dream. The perfect carry gun? No! it was worse than the MK9! Way to heavy of a trigger for precision shooting (I think that's important!) & my cut up fingers hated these magazines just as much as the MK9 magazines. I had a total of 6 magazines for that K9 & tried box after box of different ammo but that K9 malfunctioned EVEN more than the MK9!
So I got rid of the Kahr & am back to a Glock. Diden't mean to rant. Just loved the handling,lines & ergonomics of the steel Kahrs but just coulden't get 'em to work for me.
Do really like my Glock 26, however most of the time I carry a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power.
If you go with a Kahr then more power to you brother!
September 27th, 2013 09:25 PM
PM45 here. blacked out with Tritium. I LOVE IT! I have several other guns that I own and carry....kept trying to find something other than the PM45 because I thought I wanted more rounds, smaller size, bigger size, etc. Keep coming back to it. I shot it better than most all of my other guns except the full size 92 in 9mm. it conceals easy, shoots well, and is actually fun to shot. It kicks for certain. it needed 100 rounds to break in for certain. the slide needs to be locked back and allowed to slam forward to pick up a round when chambering from empty for certain. but overall....I have complete confidence in the gun and really love it.
September 27th, 2013 09:42 PM
I have the P9, the more expensive version of the CW9. I like it. I handle this lighter weight 9 as well as my full size 40. The single stack makes it a breeze to carry IWB. My aspect I like least about the gun has been mention earlier, the springs are really tight so it makes take down and re-assembly more of a challenge when compared to my 40. Overall, a good gun, I trust it.
Kahr CW380, Kahr P9, Walther P99AS
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